Gitmo酷刑顺序来自上面
星期三， 2008年4月23日
由 斯科特Horton |
英国的作家和国际律师Philippe沙子是作者 酷刑队， 在商店5月5日，记载角色律师充当强制审讯技术布什政府的节目的介绍。 这里，斯科特Horton与沙子谈话关于他的研究结果。
TNR ： 在 酷刑队您集中于一份单文件， Donald Rumsfeld的2002年12月2日 认同 非凡进取的审讯技术。 您给我们本文的创世纪，并且反叛在那导致它正式被撤出的五角大楼之内。 但什么您显示是过程和文件一样多和那个过程看来对我是跟随的正常做法的神志清楚，被学习的绕场一周
沙子： 当管理发布了2002年12月和其他备忘录，它讲根本上认为此的故事： 新的审讯技术从新来了并且与从上面驾驶的政策决策无关。 我想通过设法与决定介入许多人民谈话探索那个帐户真相，因为我可能。 我在美国附近远航了，搜寻钥匙球员在许多其他之中，戴安娜海狸和麦克Dunlavey在Guantánamo; 汤姆· Hill将军在SOUTHCOM; 迪克·梅尔思将军在联合院长和他的律师，珍妮·多尔顿; 道格Feith在五角大楼; 并且吉姆·海恩斯在总顾问的办公室。 我折磨了数百几小时与他们的采访，涌现过程一个清楚的帐户实际上是，跟随虽然，当然，有仍然出来的许多问题的细节。 压力为新的技术来自上面，并且那里从上面输入了入技术的证明。 在抓紧进行决策过程正常审批流程徊避了，如同迪克·梅尔思将军在联合院长证实了对我，说， “这应该出现的这不是方式”。 吉姆·海恩斯是其中一个关键球员在这个故事。 He was general counsel at the DoD throughout the period, Donald Rumsfeld’s Harvard Law School-trained lawyer who, it turned out, was intimately involved in the key decisions from a far earlier stage than his public accounts suggest. He may not have been the “brains” behind the whole operation–that designation must surely go to David Addington, Vice President Cheney’s lawyer at the time, and Haynes’ mentor. But Haynes was deeply and constantly involved.The man likely to go down in the history books as “Rumsfeld’s general” is Richard Myers, who served as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff from 2001-05. You are impressed with his candor, and seem to like him personally, yet you write that he was “well and truly hoodwinked” in connection with the introduction of the torture techniques.
I spoke with General Myers for several hours, and I was grateful to him for meeting with me. He struck me as a man of decency and integrity, but one who was out of his depth on these issues and seemed not to have turned his mind to crucial points of detail. It was painfully clear that he had failed to understand the implications of President Bush’s February 7, 2002, decision on the Geneva Conventions (a decision that removed from all detainees at Guantnanamo the right to invoke any rights under those conventions and which removed constraints on interrogation). It was equally clear that he thought the new techniques of interrogation had come from the U.S. Army Field Manual. In fact, the Field Manual plainly prohibited all the techniques recommended by Haynes on November 27, 2002 and approved by Rumsfeld on December 2, 2002, reflecting President Lincoln’s determination, dating back to 1863, that the
The administration’s narrative has been that a harsh set of interrogation techniques, including waterboarding and stress positions, was introduced in response to demands from interrogators in the field who concluded that what they had didn’t work. How did you reach the conclusion that, in fact, the pressure for the new techniques came from high up in the administration and worked its way down?
I have no doubt about the early, close, and active involvement of the upper echelons of the administration in the decision to request, approve and then use harsh techniques of interrogation on “Detainee 063,” Mohammed Al Qahtani. The story that emerged from the interviews was clear and it was consistent (plus, I had the opportunity to put my findings to Jim Haynes, who was the final piece of the jigsaw). The administration’s ‘bottom-up’ narrative–as spun by Mr. Haynes and others–is false, inaccurate, and misleading, and I believe it was knowingly intended to be so. The administration has scapegoated individuals who were on the ground at Guantánamo in order to protect itself. Names that could have been blacked out were not. That is deplorable, and the cover-up of what really happened will likely expose those who engaged in it to even greater difficulty.
The lawyer whose legal analysis underpins the Rumsfeld memo is Diane Beaver, whom you describe as completely out of her depth dealing with a complex set of international law questions. But you also note, rather amazingly, how Beaver’s description of plot points from the TV show “24″ directly influenced the introduction of new techniques at Guantánamo, techniques that later were replicated by American interrogators around the world. How could that happen?The administration told a story which claimed that Diane Beaver’s legal advice was the basis for the Haynes recommendation and the Rumsfeld approval of the new techniques. That is false. When Jim Haynes wrote his memo of November 27, 2002, recommending blanket approval for 15 new techniques of interrogation, and leaving three others open for future use (including waterboarding), he had knowledge of the contents of the Department of Justice legal memo from August 1, 2002, signed by Jay Bybee and written with the assistance of John Yoo. That document provided Jim Haynes with the cover he sought, not Diane Beaver’s legal advice. She was hung out to dry by Jim Haynes, in a manner that was unbecoming of his office, deeply unfair to her and reflected what will look to many like a deliberate effort to cover up what actually happened.
Even if I don’t agree with her October 11, 2002 legal memo, I found Diane Beaver to be straight and honest. I met with her for many, many hours. In the course of our conversations it emerged that “24″ had played an important role, in the sense of contributing to a climate in which the governing assumption was that ‘torture works.’ The second season of “24″ went to air–and was broadcast around
One of the lawyers you focus on is Doug Feith–though he makes clear in his interview with you that he was not functioning in the Pentagon as a lawyer. The exchange you record with Feith suggests he was distant from the decision process, and that he had a high opinion of and supported application of the
In our system of modern democratic societies, lawyers have a key role to play. They are the guardians–the gatekeepers–of legality. The rule of law requires lawyers to exercise independent judgment, and to give dispassionate, professional advice. That did not happen, at least in the upper echelons of the administration, in the Departments of Justice and Defense. Politically appointed lawyers–not the military, not the career civil servants–could be relied upon by the politicians to do what was needed, reflecting an unhappy convergence of ideology, incompetence, and weakness.
Doug Feith is a lawyer, although he was not serving the administration in that capacity. He has a helpfully dodgy memory. During our conversation he spoke with pride of his role in ensuring that none of the Guantánamo detainees should be able to rely on
If there was a “station master” for the process of introducing the torture techniques, your book suggests that was Jim Haynes. Clearly, his role was more focal to the process that John Yoo or any other lawyer. Clearly, he also saw his role as that of an implementer, not as someone giving detached professional advice. The most devastating pages of your book are devoted to Haynes. You clearly feel that he lied to–or at least consciously misled–Congress when he testified about the Yoo-Bybee torture memoranda and how they were used. Did you feel that Haynes lied to you when you interviewed him?
Jim Haynes emerges as a central player in The Torture Team. He was involved throughout, at each stage of the decision-making. I have come to appreciate that he has–at best–a semi-detached relationship with truth. His propensity to mislead was evident from his first public intervention on the issues I have addressed, in June 2004, when the administration relied on him and Alberto Gonzales to spin a false narrative on the beginnings of the abuse at Guantánamo, and its relationship to Abu Ghraib. The catalogue of untruths was added to during his appearance before the Senate Judiciary Committee, in July 2006, when he was still trying to get himself nominated to a federal Court of Appeals. It is an interesting exercise to compare the account he offered on that day–as to the circumstances in which he wrote his November 2002 memo–with what actually happened. You might focus, for example, on when he first became involved and what he did when the materials were at the Joint Chiefs. It will be for others to form a view as to whether, and if so to what extent, he perjured himself.
I met with Jim Haynes on two occasions, in June 2007 and then in September 2007. He was under no obligation to meet with me. We talked openly and frankly, and I presented him with many of the most important facts as I then saw them, including the circumstances of his visit to Guantánamo in the period before he wrote his November memo. Did he lie to me? That is a question that might be put to him. If it ever is, his memory of our two meetings might be jogged by directing him to the information set out at page 99 of The Terror Presidency, the book written by Jack Goldsmith, who served as his special counsel from September 2002 until October 2003. On that page is confirmation of what I was told before I first met with Mr. Haynes, namely that he joined a delegation of the most senior lawyers in the Administration (accompanied by Messrs. Addington and Gonzales, and a senior CIA lawyer, John Rizzo, amongst others) that visited Guantánamo in late September 2002. That meeting confirmed Mr. Haynes’ early involvement in the process that led to the adoption of new techniques of interrogation, far earlier than his public narrative has indicated. Professor Goldsmith’s confirming account was published in the period between my two meetings with Mr. Haynes.
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This entry was posted on Wednesday, April 23rd, 2008at 5:31 amand is filed under War & Terrorism News. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
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