{"id":355427,"date":"2018-04-05T23:31:56","date_gmt":"2018-04-05T22:31:56","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/rinf.com\/alt-news\/newswire\/democracy-means-everyone-counts\/"},"modified":"2018-04-05T23:31:56","modified_gmt":"2018-04-05T22:31:56","slug":"democracy-means-everyone-counts","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/rinf.com\/alt-news\/newswire\/democracy-means-everyone-counts\/","title":{"rendered":"\u2018Democracy Means Everyone Counts\u2019"},"content":{"rendered":"<p style=\"text-align: left\"><em>Janine Jackson interviewed Karen Hobert Flynn about the Census and citizenship for the <a href=\"https:\/\/fair.org\/home\/karen-hobert-flynn-on-census-citizenship-jeff-cohen-on-cable-news-hawks\/\">March 10, 2018<\/a>, episode of <strong>CounterSpin<\/strong>. This is a lightly edited transcript.<\/em><\/p>\n<div id=\"wrapperMI_0\" class=\"wrap-mjp  \" style=\"padding:5px 0px 40px 0px;margin:0px;width:100%\">\n<div class=\"Eabove-mjp\" id=\"Eabove-mjp_0\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"subwrap-MI\">\n<div class=\"jp-innerwrap\">\n<div class=\"innerx\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"innerleft\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"innerright\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"innertab\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"interface-mjp verdana-mjp\" style=\"height:71px\" id=\"interfaceMI_0\">\n<div class=\"MI-image Himg right-mjp\" id=\"MI_image_0\" style=\"width:auto;height:71px;overflow:hidden\"><\/div>\n<div id=\"T_mp3j_0\" class=\"player-track-title left-mjp norm-mjp plain-mjp childNorm-mjp childPlain-mjp\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"bars_holder\">\n<div class=\"loadMI_mp3j\" id=\"load_mp3j_0\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"poscolMI_mp3j\" id=\"poscol_mp3j_0\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"posbarMI_mp3j\" id=\"posbar_mp3j_0\"><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<div id=\"P-Time-MI_0\" class=\"jp-play-time\"><\/div>\n<div id=\"T-Time-MI_0\" class=\"jp-total-time\"><\/div>\n<div id=\"statusMI_0\" class=\"statusMI\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"transport-MI\">\n<div class=\"play-mjp\" id=\"playpause_mp3j_0\">Play<\/div>\n<div class=\"stop-mjp\" id=\"stop_mp3j_0\">Stop<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"buttons-wrap-mjp\" id=\"buttons-wrap-mjp_0\">\n<div class=\"mp3j-popout-MI\" id=\"lpp_mp3j_0\">pop out<\/div>\n<div id=\"download_mp3j_0\" class=\"dloadmp3-MI\"><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<div class=\"mjp-volwrap\">\n<div class=\"MIsliderVolume\" id=\"vol_mp3j_0\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"innerExt1\" id=\"innerExt1_0\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"innerExt2\" id=\"innerExt2_0\"><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<div class=\"Ebetween-mjp\" id=\"Ebetween-mjp_0\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"listwrap_mp3j\" id=\"L_mp3j_0\">\n<div class=\"wrapper-mjp\">\n<div class=\"playlist-colour\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"wrapper-mjp\">\n<ul class=\"ul-mjp darken1-mjp verdana-mjp med-mjp childNorm-mjp childPlain-mjp left-mjp\" id=\"UL_mp3j_0\">\n<li><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div><\/div>\n<div id=\"mp3j_finfo_0\" class=\"mp3j-finfo\">\n<div class=\"mp3j-finfo-sleeve\">\n<div id=\"mp3j_finfo_gif_0\" class=\"mp3j-finfo-gif\"><\/div>\n<div id=\"mp3j_finfo_txt_0\" class=\"mp3j-finfo-txt\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"mp3j-finfo-close\" id=\"mp3j_finfo_close_0\">X<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div id=\"mp3j_dlf_0\" class=\"mp3j-dlframe\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"mp3j-nosolution\" id=\"mp3j_nosolution_0\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"Ebelow-mjp\" id=\"Ebelow-mjp_0\"><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<p>MP3jPLAYLISTS.MI_0 = [<br \/>\n\t{ name: &#8220;1. 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So much that 12 states are<a href=\"https:\/\/www.nytimes.com\/2018\/03\/27\/us\/census-citizenship-question.html\"> suing<\/a> the Trump administration to counter the move.<\/p>\n<p>The<a href=\"https:\/\/www.commerce.gov\/news\/press-releases\/2018\/03\/us-department-commerce-announces-reinstatement-citizenship-question-2020\"> question<\/a> in question is, \u201cAre you a US citizen?\u201d It might raise eyebrows coming from any White House, but coming from this one, the<a href=\"https:\/\/www.commerce.gov\/sites\/commerce.gov\/files\/2018-03-26_2.pdf\"> last-minute move<\/a> raises tremendous<a href=\"https:\/\/www.detroitnews.com\/story\/business\/2018\/03\/27\/census-citizenship\/33316783\/\"> concerns<\/a>, that only begin with the likelihood that the question would<a href=\"https:\/\/www.nytimes.com\/2018\/02\/14\/us\/politics\/citizenship-question-census-public-health.html\"> depress<\/a> response.<\/p>\n<p>Karen Hobert Flynn is a long-time democracy reform activist and the president of<a href=\"http:\/\/www.commoncause.org\/about\/staff-directory\/karen-hobert-flynn.html\"> Common Cause<\/a>. She joins us now by phone from Washington, DC. Welcome to <b>CounterSpin<\/b>, Karen Hobert Flynn.<\/p>\n<p><b>Karen Hobert Flynn<\/b>: Thank you for having me.<\/p>\n<p><b>JJ:<\/b> What <i>are<\/i> the big concerns about adding a question about citizenship to the census?<\/p>\n<p><b>KHF:<\/b> You know, America\u2019s founders created the census, and wrote into the Constitution a requirement that their successors need to count all the nation\u2019s <i>inhabitants<\/i> every ten years. Because they understood that for a truly representative democracy, we must know how many of us there are in the country, and the states in which we live. So, inhabitants, <i>not<\/i> citizens, was the requirement.<\/p>\n<p>So people are<a href=\"http:\/\/www.capradio.org\/articles\/2018\/03\/28\/citizenship-question-would-appear-on-census-with-no-dress-rehearsal\/\"> alarmed<\/a> when they see\u2014for the first time since 1950\u2014that this administration wants to put a citizenship question in the census, without any kind of testing. And in an atmosphere where we have seen this administration, with its anti-immigrant rhetoric and long list of<a href=\"https:\/\/www.thenation.com\/article\/the-new-trump-immigration-plan-is-anti-american\/\"> anti-immigrant policies and proposals<\/a> (many that have been<a href=\"https:\/\/www.politico.com\/story\/2018\/03\/05\/dreamers-daca-maryland-judge-trump-438520\"> struck down<\/a> by<a href=\"https:\/\/www.theatlantic.com\/politics\/archive\/2018\/03\/the-weaponized-census\/556592\/\"> judges<\/a>), it&#8217;s <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theatlantic.com\/politics\/archive\/2018\/03\/the-weaponized-census\/556592\/\">created<\/a> a tidal wave of fear, and<a href=\"https:\/\/www2.census.gov\/cac\/nac\/meetings\/2017-11\/Memo-Regarding-Respondent-Confidentiality-Concerns.pdf\"> concern<\/a> that any information they provide to the census (although it\u2019s supposed to be kept private) could be used to <a href=\"https:\/\/www.washingtonpost.com\/news\/retropolis\/wp\/2018\/04\/03\/secret-use-of-census-info-helped-send-japanese-americans-to-internment-camps-in-wwii\/?utm_term=.b79e8d458ae6\">deport<\/a> family members and neighbors.<\/p>\n<p><b>JJ:<\/b> Absolutely. You know, in another context, I might have started with a rhetorical, \u201cWhat\u2019s the big deal?\u201d But I think it\u2019s just so obvious, in this case, what the big deal potentially is. It\u2019s wholly appropriate, isn\u2019t it, to see this in the context of other moves by the administration. Why wouldn\u2019t respondents have concerns about confidentiality, when this administration has said explicitly, &#8220;We\u2019re looking to root out non-citizens&#8221;? But then, of course, going on from that&#8230;if you undercount, what happens?<\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_8925768\" style=\"width: 310px\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-8925768\" src=\"https:\/\/fair.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/04\/United_States_Secretary_of_Commerce_Wilbur_Ross_address_to_employees_on_March_1st_2017-300x207.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"300\" height=\"207\" \/><\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-caption-text\"><em>US Secretary of Commerce Wilbur Ross<\/em><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<p><b>KHF:<\/b> There are many impacts that go to both the heart of our democratic system, and also how that data is used by communities. For instance, that information is used by communities to decide if they need a new fire station. It has an impact on schools, resources in a community to deal with assistance for veterans, hospitals, transportation. And so the impacts are large.<\/p>\n<p>And then, when it comes to our democracy, democracy means everyone counts and has equal and fair representation. So it\u2019s important to ensure every person is counted accurately, so that they have fair political representation.<\/p>\n<p>This data that they collect is used by states to draw district lines. And those district lines determine how many seats a state will have in the House of Representatives, and also the maps drawn for state legislative districts. We already see some real challenges, and the politicization of drawing maps that occurs every ten years, where incumbents like to select their voters, rather than the other way around. But this actually rigs the system before we even get to the part of redistricting. And so that\u2019s one of the biggest challenges.<\/p>\n<p>And it\u2019s interesting, because the Census Bureau has really tried, for the last several decades, to remove that kind of politicization, and to work to make sure that they can get the best count they can. Back in 2010, the Census Bureau worked with community organizations to do outreach, to let people know that the information that they collect is kept private and that nothing bad will happen to them if they comply and answer the census data. This move, I think, is going to really undermine that.<\/p>\n<p><b>JJ:<\/b> It really trashes that trust that\u2019s been built up.<\/p>\n<p>Well, Secretary of Commerce Wilbur Ross<a href=\"https:\/\/www.commerce.gov\/sites\/commerce.gov\/files\/2018-03-26_2.pdf\"> presented<\/a> it as just a dry, sober, statistical matter: It has something to do with protecting voters, you know, enforcing the Voting Rights Act. It\u2019s a little too Orwellian, almost, even to engage. But what I really wanted to say is, at the same time the Trump reelection campaign is <a href=\"https:\/\/talkingpointsmemo.com\/muckraker\/trump-fundraising-off-controversial-push-to-include-citizenship-question-in-census\">fundraising<\/a> off this possible change to the census, making it clear that it really does have something to do with what one of the former directors of the census, Kenneth Prewitt,<a href=\"https:\/\/www.washingtonpost.com\/local\/social-issues\/white-house-proposal-to-ask-immigration-status-in-census-could-have-chilling-effect-experts-say\/2017\/02\/01\/1fc51b8e-e8af-11e6-bf6f-301b6b443624_story.html?utm_term=.adc1032e8643\"> said<\/a>: &#8220;It\u2019s a step toward not counting the people you don\u2019t want to count.\u201d<\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_8925791\" style=\"width: 360px\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-8925791\" src=\"https:\/\/fair.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/04\/Karen-Hobert-Flynn-Portrait.jpg\" alt=\"Karen Hobert Flynn\" width=\"350\" height=\"525\" \/><\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-caption-text\"><em>Karen Hobert Flynn: &#8220;To suggest that now<\/em> this <em>administration is concerned about enforcement of the Voting Rights Act really is laughable.&#8221;<\/em><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<p><b>KHF:<\/b> That\u2019s right. Two things: One, this notion that the Voting Rights Act\u2019s enforcement is needed, using census data, has been<a href=\"https:\/\/democraticredistricting.com\/holder-statement-on-the-trump-administrations-decision-to-include-a-citizenship-question-on-the-2020-census\/\"> debunked<\/a> by Eric Holder, our former attorney general. He, as attorney general, and his predecessors, never needed to get a citizenship question on the census, because they could use the data derived from the existing census process for any voting rights litigation. And, actually, the Voting Rights Act, it was enacted in 1965\u2014and the census hasn\u2019t included a citizenship question since 1950. So to suggest that now<i> this<\/i> administration is concerned about enforcement of the Voting Rights Act really is laughable.<\/p>\n<p><b>JJ:<\/b> Doesn\u2019t pass the sniff test. And then, to that point about &#8220;not counting the people you don\u2019t want\u201d\u2014and this is coming from a former director of the Census. Six former directors of the Census have<a href=\"https:\/\/www.washingtonpost.com\/r\/2010-2019\/WashingtonPost\/2018\/03\/27\/Editorial-Opinion\/Graphics\/DOJ_census_ques_request_Former_Directors_ltr_to_Ross.pdf?tid=a_mcntx\"> written<\/a> this letter, saying this is a bad move, that it will dampen turnout, but then Prewitt goes on to say, no, we can actually see a strategy here, and it\u2019s an anti-democratic strategy.<\/p>\n<p><b>KHF:<\/b> That\u2019s right. There\u2019s going to be more litigation besides the 12 states. I saw the NAACP is<a href=\"https:\/\/assets.documentcloud.org\/documents\/4425433\/3-28-18-NAACP-v-Bureau-of-the-Census-Complaint.pdf\"> suing<\/a>. We know California has already<a href=\"https:\/\/www.cnn.com\/2018\/03\/27\/politics\/census-commerce-department-immigration-california\/index.html\"> sued<\/a>. So I expect that there are going to be many court challenges. And I\u2019m not sure what that\u2019s going to mean for the timing of this. You know, usually if there are new questions, this is brought up early in the process. It\u2019s thoroughly vetted; Congress is involved in that process. And this is a very last-minute addition, with no testing, and that\u2019s why it raises an even greater concern.<\/p>\n<p><b>JJ:<\/b> And that was going to be my final question, is what do you see happening? It sounds like a lot of lawsuits. Is there any way for folks to weigh in, or do we just kind of watch what happens?<\/p>\n<p><b>KHF:<\/b> I do think that it is important for citizens to let their elected officials know that a citizenship question is a bad decision for the census, for our communities and for America. And they should be urging their members of Congress to weigh in against this citizenship question. And I also think that we will also see more litigation around this matter, so I don\u2019t think this is going to be a settled matter anytime soon.<\/p>\n<p><b>JJ:<\/b> And I should have asked you if you had any thoughts on media. Frankly, what media I\u2019ve seen in the last few days has been pretty explanatory, and critics have been represented, critics of this move. But are there angles of the issue you\u2019d like to see journalists dig into, or explore more?<\/p>\n<p><b>KHF:<\/b> I do think, and I\u2019ve seen some of this, but: push back on the White House assertion that this is pro forma, that these questions have been asked for years. There is a more detailed long form that goes to one in, I think, 38 people, that asks questions about citizenship, but for the bulk of the census, the people that participate in the census, they are not questioned. So to suggest that they\u2019re just doing something that\u2019s always been done\u2014that isn\u2019t true. So I think continuing push back, because we see the Trump administration has <b>Fox News<\/b> and others repeat what they say from the White House pressroom; it\u2019s important to continue to push back on those errors.<\/p>\n<p><b>JJ:<\/b> We\u2019ve been speaking with Karen Hobert Flynn, president of<a href=\"http:\/\/www.commoncause.org\/\"> Common Cause<\/a>. You can follow their work online at<a href=\"http:\/\/www.commoncause.org\/\"> CommonCause.org<\/a>, and her article, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.usnews.com\/opinion\/op-ed\/articles\/2018-01-30\/dont-ask-about-citizenship-on-the-2020-census\">&#8220;Ensure Everyone Is Counted,&#8221;<\/a> co-authored with former Census Bureau Director Vincent Barabba, is on <b>US News and World Report\u2019s<\/b> website,<a href=\"https:\/\/www.usnews.com\/opinion\/op-ed\/articles\/2018-01-30\/dont-ask-about-citizenship-on-the-2020-census\"> <b>USNews.com<\/b>.<\/a><\/p>\n<p>Karen Hobert Flynn, thank you very much for joining us this week on <b>CounterSpin<\/b>.<\/p>\n<p><b>KHF:<\/b> Thank you.<\/p>\n<p><span class=\"et_bloom_bottom_trigger\"><\/span><br \/>\nThis piece was reprinted by <a href=\"http:\/\/rinf.com\">RINF Alternative News<\/a> with permission from <a href=\"https:\/\/fair.org\/home\/democracy-means-everyone-counts\/\">FAIR<\/a>.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Janine Jackson interviewed Karen Hobert Flynn about the Census and citizenship for the March 10, 2018, episode of CounterSpin. 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