{"id":326080,"date":"2017-09-15T01:23:31","date_gmt":"2017-09-15T00:23:31","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/rinf.com\/alt-news\/newswire\/undocumented-immigrants-are-constantly-used-as-a-bargaining-chip\/"},"modified":"2017-09-15T01:23:31","modified_gmt":"2017-09-15T00:23:31","slug":"undocumented-immigrants-are-constantly-used-as-a-bargaining-chip","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/rinf.com\/alt-news\/newswire\/undocumented-immigrants-are-constantly-used-as-a-bargaining-chip\/","title":{"rendered":"\u2018Undocumented Immigrants Are Constantly Used as a Bargaining Chip\u2019"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><em>Janine Jackson interviewed Tina Vasquez about DACA for the <a href=\"http:\/\/fair.org\/home\/tina-vasquez-on-daca-shaye-wolf-on-harveys-toxins\/\">September 8, 2017, episode<\/a> of <strong>CounterSpin<\/strong>. This is a lightly edited transcript.<\/em><\/p>\n<div id=\"wrapperMI_0\" class=\"wrap-mjp  \" style=\"padding:5px 0px 40px 0px;margin:0px;width:100%\">\n<div class=\"Eabove-mjp\" id=\"Eabove-mjp_0\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"subwrap-MI\">\n<div class=\"jp-innerwrap\">\n<div class=\"innerx\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"innerleft\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"innerright\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"innertab\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"interface-mjp verdana-mjp\" style=\"height:71px\" id=\"interfaceMI_0\">\n<div class=\"MI-image Himg right-mjp\" id=\"MI_image_0\" style=\"width:auto;height:71px;overflow:hidden\"><\/div>\n<div id=\"T_mp3j_0\" class=\"player-track-title left-mjp norm-mjp plain-mjp childNorm-mjp childPlain-mjp\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"bars_holder\">\n<div class=\"loadMI_mp3j\" id=\"load_mp3j_0\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"poscolMI_mp3j\" id=\"poscol_mp3j_0\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"posbarMI_mp3j\" id=\"posbar_mp3j_0\"><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<div id=\"P-Time-MI_0\" class=\"jp-play-time\"><\/div>\n<div id=\"T-Time-MI_0\" class=\"jp-total-time\"><\/div>\n<div id=\"statusMI_0\" class=\"statusMI\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"transport-MI\">\n<div class=\"play-mjp\" id=\"playpause_mp3j_0\">Play<\/div>\n<div class=\"stop-mjp\" id=\"stop_mp3j_0\">Stop<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"buttons-wrap-mjp\" id=\"buttons-wrap-mjp_0\">\n<div class=\"mp3j-popout-MI\" id=\"lpp_mp3j_0\">pop out<\/div>\n<div id=\"download_mp3j_0\" class=\"dloadmp3-MI\"><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<div class=\"mjp-volwrap\">\n<div class=\"MIsliderVolume\" id=\"vol_mp3j_0\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"innerExt1\" id=\"innerExt1_0\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"innerExt2\" id=\"innerExt2_0\"><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<div class=\"Ebetween-mjp\" id=\"Ebetween-mjp_0\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"listwrap_mp3j\" id=\"L_mp3j_0\">\n<div class=\"wrapper-mjp\">\n<div class=\"playlist-colour\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"wrapper-mjp\">\n<ul class=\"ul-mjp darken1-mjp verdana-mjp med-mjp childNorm-mjp childPlain-mjp left-mjp\" id=\"UL_mp3j_0\">\n<li><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div><\/div>\n<div id=\"mp3j_finfo_0\" class=\"mp3j-finfo\">\n<div class=\"mp3j-finfo-sleeve\">\n<div id=\"mp3j_finfo_gif_0\" class=\"mp3j-finfo-gif\"><\/div>\n<div id=\"mp3j_finfo_txt_0\" class=\"mp3j-finfo-txt\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"mp3j-finfo-close\" id=\"mp3j_finfo_close_0\">X<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div id=\"mp3j_dlf_0\" class=\"mp3j-dlframe\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"mp3j-nosolution\" id=\"mp3j_nosolution_0\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"Ebelow-mjp\" id=\"Ebelow-mjp_0\"><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<p>MP3jPLAYLISTS.MI_0 = [<br \/>\n\t{ name: &#8220;1. 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Democratic lawmakers are speaking out in support, thus demonstrating what the <b>Washington Post<\/b> <a href=\"https:\/\/www.washingtonpost.com\/blogs\/post-partisan\/wp\/2017\/09\/04\/a-2020-democratic-agenda-is-emerging\/?utm_term=.2dc26148397f\">called<\/a> a \u201clurch to the left,\u201d and corporate media are presenting a clear for-and-against battle over the program that allowed some 800,000 people who came to the US as children to legally work, drive and travel outside the country.<\/p>\n<p>But if the \u201cagainst\u201d argument is obvious, and obviously bogus\u2014they\u2019re criminals who steal jobs while somehow simultaneously draining welfare\u2014the argument of supporters and recipients is not always especially thoughtfully explored. <a href=\"https:\/\/rewire.news\/author\/tina-vasquez\/\">Tina Vasquez<\/a> is the immigration reporter at <b>Rewire<\/b>. She joins us now by phone from North Carolina. Welcome to <b>CounterSpin<\/b>, Tina Vasquez.<\/p>\n<p><b>Tina Vasquez:<\/b> Thank you for having me.<\/p>\n<p><b>JJ:<\/b> While it\u2019s being covered in some places as an \u201cissue\u201d\u2014you know, a \u201clitmus test\u201d for Democrats or some sort of political volleying on the part of the White House\u2014you heard from a number of young adults who were recipients of DACA, and they had a nuanced understanding of the program. But first, they were clear that it had improved their lives in meaningful ways. What were some of the things they talked about? What has DACA meant for them?<\/p>\n<p><b>TV:<\/b> There are overarching things that are very clear, because it provided work authorization and allowed people to get driver\u2019s licenses. There are still challenges even if you are DACA <b>\u00a0<\/b>recipient when it comes to going to college, because in states like mine in North Carolina, they still have to pay out-of-state tuition, which is more than three times the cost for citizens. And so there are still a lot of hurdles.<\/p>\n<p>But generally speaking, it allowed people to get better-paying jobs, it allowed them to get jobs in their field of study. It dramatically increased the type of jobs that they were able to get, in terms of how much they were paid, what kind of benefits they received, and enabled a lot of people to go to community college, to go to state universities. So those are just the big picture stuff.<\/p>\n<p>A young man that I interviewed from North Carolina was very clear in that DACA, for him and for a lot of people in his community, helped in ways that American citizens maybe take for granted, \u00a0in terms of having a driver\u2019s license and being able to safely drive his siblings to school. Or his parents, who are undocumented and who are afraid to drive, or of having any sort of interaction, as undocumented people, with law enforcement, he was able to drive them out of state to visit other family members. He was able to travel within the United States and have the proper documentation to be able to show TSA. Before, that was very scary for him; he only had his Mexican passport. So just things like that, that we don\u2019t think of, and then maybe larger, overarching things that have really improved their lives.<\/p>\n<p><b>JJ:<\/b> We know that the right-wing story is false and driven by anti\u2013brown and black immigrant animus. Let\u2019s not say \u201canti-immigrant,\u201d because come on. But I know that many advocates want to caution us from what is sometimes presented as the counter-argument, which is this line that, \u201cunlike their parents, DACA recipients didn\u2019t do anything wrong.\u201d The phrase \u201cthrough no fault of their own\u201d comes up a lot. Or that, really, \u201call of them are working three jobs and going to college at night,\u201d you know. It isn\u2019t that DACA recipients aren\u2019t striving, but that picture, some folks seem to suggest, even if it persuades some people in the short term, it\u2019s not really long-term all that helpful.<\/p>\n<p><b>TV:<\/b> If I\u2019m speaking to a person who has DACA, or an undocumented person, and they use that sort of framing, that\u2019s up to them to do. But in terms of the framing that I use in writing about DACA, I avoid phrases like \u201cDREAMers,\u201d I avoid the narrative that they came here through no fault of their own, or that their parents brought them here and it\u2019s not their fault, they shouldn\u2019t pay for their parents\u2019 mistakes.<\/p>\n<p>Because these young people were undocumented before they received DACA. DACA is not a permanent legal status, it\u2019s simply a program. And so that kind of language, to me, demonizes their parents, and it demonizes who they were before they received DACA, and I don\u2019t think that\u2019s helpful to anyone. Their parents made very hard choices to come to the United States, and using that framing isn\u2019t at all necessary to illustrate why removing DACA, rescinding DACA, is so harmful, and so tragic to young undocumented people, or young DACAmented people.<\/p>\n<p><b>JJ:<\/b> Can you remind us, just a little bit, of how we got to DACA? Because, certainly, we know that immigrant advocates fought for it, but it wasn\u2019t that it was exactly their first choice. What was some of the trajectory here?<\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_5592627\" style=\"width: 360px\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\"><a href=\"http:\/\/fair.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/09\/Tina-Vasquez.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\" wp-image-5592627\" src=\"http:\/\/fair.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/09\/Tina-Vasquez.jpg\" alt=\"Tina Vasquez\" width=\"350\" height=\"350\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-caption-text\"><em>Tina Vasquez: &#8220;DACA&#8230;was very hard-won by young undocumented people, and it wasn\u2019t just something that was given to them by President Obama.&#8221;<\/em><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<p><b>TV:<\/b> The DREAM Act has been in place since 2001, and so now there\u2019s talk of the DREAM Act again. And based on people that I\u2019m speaking to, and people who\u2019ve been in the immigrant rights movement for a very long time, it\u2019s like reopening a wound. Young people were very, very invested in the DREAM Act, and in it providing this pathway to citizenship, and then it just never happened. And then Obama became president, and there was lots of talk of comprehensive immigration reform, and large immigration moves that were supposed to be made within his first 100 days of office, and that never happened.<\/p>\n<p>And so young people began demanding some sort of administrative relief. And DACA\u2019s been called a lot of things, from amnesty to citizenship. It\u2019s neither of those things. It doesn\u2019t provide a pathway to citizenship. But at least for two-year intervals, they knew that they wouldn\u2019t be deported, they knew that they could work and they can go to school, and that\u2019s all that it\u2019s been. But it was very hard-won by young undocumented people, and it wasn\u2019t just something that was given to them by President Obama.<\/p>\n<p><b>JJ:<\/b> Right. Well, the implication now from media is that there\u2019s a possibility that Congress might &#8220;save&#8221; DACA. But that seems like a rock that bears looking under. Are there concerns about what it might mean to have Congress work out a deal on preserving DACA?<\/p>\n<p><b>TV:<\/b> The primary one is the one that\u2019s sort of constant. It\u2019s that immigration and undocumented immigrants are constantly being used as this sort of bargaining chip. So while helping one population of immigrants that we\u2019ve deemed &#8220;acceptable,&#8221; or young, good people that we should be giving these things to, that demonizes another group of people, and it\u2019s often their parents. And so the way this is often set up is that one group of people has to suffer in order to give other things to other groups of people.<\/p>\n<p>And I think with border-wall funding, that\u2019s certainly a concern. I think to save DACA, that\u2019s what will be proposed, and that\u2019s throwing millions of people under the bus. And that\u2019s also really troublesome, because the border exists, it\u2019s heavily militarized, and it has been since President Obama funneled billions of dollars into it, and hired many, many Border Patrol agents. It\u2019s just unnecessary. And people that I\u2019ve interviewed who live in those communities will tell you how unnecessary more border-wall funding is. But I think that\u2019s the game that\u2019s going to be played in order to save DACA.<\/p>\n<p><b>JJ:<\/b> Yes, I heard <b>NPR<\/b> <a href=\"http:\/\/www.npr.org\/2017\/09\/05\/546423550\/trump-signals-end-to-daca-calls-on-congress-to-act\">say<\/a> that Steve Bannon had convinced Trump to \u201cspare DREAMers and use them as a strategic asset in the coming immigration policy battles.\u201d I don\u2019t think \u201cspare\u201d means there what they think it means.<\/p>\n<p><b>TV:<\/b> Right.<\/p>\n<p><b>JJ:<\/b> Going forward, of course, there is a lot of uncertainty. But some of the people that you heard from said, you know, we\u2019re not most worried about falling out of status, we\u2019ve been out of status. But the database does concern them\u2014not just being newly deportable, but being so easily findable. Is that a concern that you\u2019re hearing?<\/p>\n<p><b>TV:<\/b> Yeah, that\u2019s one that\u2019s being expressed a lot. I mean, just the amount of information that the Trump administration has, and the way that it\u2019s already utilizing it, when we look into how the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.ice.gov\/voice\">VOICE<\/a> office is structured, and the <a href=\"https:\/\/vinelink.dhs.gov\/#\/map\">DHS VINE<\/a> database, which has the location and identifying information of undocumented immigrants that are in ICE custody in detention centers, and that anyone can go to and look up their status updates on their cases, and where they are.<\/p>\n<p>And now you have this DACA database, that not only includes things like biometrics and personal identifying information for young DACA recipients, but also information on their family and places that they have lived, which also endangers their families who are mixed status or who are undocumented. So it\u2019s really, really troublesome. And there is little reason to have faith in the Trump administration, and in thinking that they won\u2019t utilize or weaponize this information.<\/p>\n<p><b>JJ:<\/b> I wonder, finally, how you think journalists can contribute to that paradigm shift, to that shift from, you know, \u201clet\u2019s help the children and punish their parents,\u201d and that sort of thing, to a more holistic understanding of immigration? What would you like to see change in reporting?<\/p>\n<p><b>TV:<\/b> I don\u2019t think that we should assume that we know the framing that will help different populations of immigrants under attack right now. A lot of young people that are protesting right now aren\u2019t just doing it for themselves, and doing it for DACA, but they&#8217;re doing it for the 11 million undocumented immigrants that currently reside in the US, and who are their families. And so asking people, what would be useful for people to know, you know, if you&#8217;re interviewing someone who has DACA, what do you want people to know, what do you think is being missed by the media? What are some misconceptions that you think are out there? Let them pave the way. You know, they\u2019re living this, and they know what\u2019s best.<\/p>\n<p><b>JJ:<\/b> We&#8217;ve been speaking with Tina Vasquez, immigration reporter at <b>Rewire<\/b>. You can find her work online at <a href=\"https:\/\/rewire.news\/\"><b>Rewire.news<\/b><\/a>. Tina Vasquez, thank you so much for joining us this week on <b>CounterSpin<\/b>.<\/p>\n<p><b>TV:<\/b> Thank you for having me.<\/p>\n<p><span class=\"et_bloom_bottom_trigger\"><\/span><br \/>\nThis piece was reprinted by <a href=\"http:\/\/rinf.com\">RINF Alternative News<\/a> with permission from <a href=\"http:\/\/fair.org\/home\/undocumented-immigrants-are-constantly-used-as-a-bargaining-chip\/\">FAIR<\/a>.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Janine Jackson interviewed Tina Vasquez about DACA for the September 8, 2017, episode of CounterSpin. This is a lightly edited transcript. Play Stop pop out X MP3jPLAYLISTS.MI_0 = [ { name: &#8220;1. 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