{"id":324053,"date":"2017-08-31T23:14:30","date_gmt":"2017-08-31T22:14:30","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/rinf.com\/alt-news\/newswire\/this-has-always-been-a-failed-and-failing-war\/"},"modified":"2017-08-31T23:14:30","modified_gmt":"2017-08-31T22:14:30","slug":"this-has-always-been-a-failed-and-failing-war","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/rinf.com\/alt-news\/newswire\/this-has-always-been-a-failed-and-failing-war\/","title":{"rendered":"\u2018This Has Always Been a Failed and Failing War\u2019"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><em>Janine Jackson interviewed Phyllis Bennis about Trump&#8217;s Afghan War escalation for the <a href=\"http:\/\/fair.org\/home\/phyllis-bennis-on-afghanistan-marie-hicks-on-women-in-tech\/\">August 25, 2017, episode<\/a> of <strong>CounterSpin<\/strong>. This is a lightly edited transcript.<\/em><\/p>\n<div id=\"wrapperMI_0\" class=\"wrap-mjp  \" style=\"padding:5px 0px 40px 0px;margin:0px;width:100%\">\n<div class=\"Eabove-mjp\" id=\"Eabove-mjp_0\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"subwrap-MI\">\n<div class=\"jp-innerwrap\">\n<div class=\"innerx\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"innerleft\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"innerright\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"innertab\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"interface-mjp verdana-mjp\" style=\"height:71px\" id=\"interfaceMI_0\">\n<div class=\"MI-image Himg right-mjp\" id=\"MI_image_0\" style=\"width:auto;height:71px;overflow:hidden\"><\/div>\n<div id=\"T_mp3j_0\" class=\"player-track-title left-mjp norm-mjp plain-mjp childNorm-mjp childPlain-mjp\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"bars_holder\">\n<div class=\"loadMI_mp3j\" id=\"load_mp3j_0\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"poscolMI_mp3j\" id=\"poscol_mp3j_0\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"posbarMI_mp3j\" id=\"posbar_mp3j_0\"><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<div id=\"P-Time-MI_0\" class=\"jp-play-time\"><\/div>\n<div id=\"T-Time-MI_0\" class=\"jp-total-time\"><\/div>\n<div id=\"statusMI_0\" class=\"statusMI\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"transport-MI\">\n<div class=\"play-mjp\" id=\"playpause_mp3j_0\">Play<\/div>\n<div class=\"stop-mjp\" id=\"stop_mp3j_0\">Stop<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"buttons-wrap-mjp\" id=\"buttons-wrap-mjp_0\">\n<div class=\"mp3j-popout-MI\" id=\"lpp_mp3j_0\">pop out<\/div>\n<div id=\"download_mp3j_0\" class=\"dloadmp3-MI\"><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<div class=\"mjp-volwrap\">\n<div class=\"MIsliderVolume\" id=\"vol_mp3j_0\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"innerExt1\" id=\"innerExt1_0\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"innerExt2\" id=\"innerExt2_0\"><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<div class=\"Ebetween-mjp\" id=\"Ebetween-mjp_0\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"listwrap_mp3j\" id=\"L_mp3j_0\">\n<div class=\"wrapper-mjp\">\n<div class=\"playlist-colour\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"wrapper-mjp\">\n<ul class=\"ul-mjp darken1-mjp verdana-mjp med-mjp childNorm-mjp childPlain-mjp left-mjp\" id=\"UL_mp3j_0\">\n<li><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div><\/div>\n<div id=\"mp3j_finfo_0\" class=\"mp3j-finfo\">\n<div class=\"mp3j-finfo-sleeve\">\n<div id=\"mp3j_finfo_gif_0\" class=\"mp3j-finfo-gif\"><\/div>\n<div id=\"mp3j_finfo_txt_0\" class=\"mp3j-finfo-txt\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"mp3j-finfo-close\" id=\"mp3j_finfo_close_0\">X<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div id=\"mp3j_dlf_0\" class=\"mp3j-dlframe\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"mp3j-nosolution\" id=\"mp3j_nosolution_0\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"Ebelow-mjp\" id=\"Ebelow-mjp_0\"><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<p>MP3jPLAYLISTS.MI_0 = [<br \/>\n\t{ name: &#8220;1. CounterSpin Phyllis Bennis Interview &#8220;, formats: [&#8220;mp3&#8221;], mp3: &#8220;aHR0cDovL3d3dy5mYWlyLm9yZy9hdWRpby9jb3VudGVyc3Bpbi9Db3VudGVyU3BpbjE3MDgyNUJlbm5pcy5tcDM=&#8221;, counterpart:&#8221;&#8221;, artist: &#8220;&#8221;, image: &#8220;true&#8221;, imgurl: &#8220;&#8221; }<br \/>\n];<\/p>\n<p>MP3jPLAYERS[0] = { list:MP3jPLAYLISTS.MI_0, tr:0, type:&#8217;MI&#8217;, lstate:true, loop:false, play_txt:&#8217;Play&#8217;, pause_txt:&#8217;Pause&#8217;, pp_title:&#8217;FAIR&#8217;, autoplay:false, download:true, vol:80, height:71, cssclass:&#8217; &#8216;, popout_css:{ enabled:true, \t\t\tcolours: [&#8220;#fff&#8221;, &#8220;rgba(201,207,232,0.35)&#8221;, &#8220;rgb(241,241,241)&#8221;, &#8220;rgba(245,5,5,0.7)&#8221;, &#8220;rgba(92,201,255,0.8)&#8221;, &#8220;transparent&#8221;, &#8220;transparent&#8221;, &#8220;#525252&#8221;, &#8220;#525252&#8221;, &#8220;#768D99&#8221;, &#8220;#47ACDE&#8221;, &#8220;&#8221;, 600, 200 ],<br \/>\n\t\t\tcssInterface: { &#8220;color&#8221;: &#8220;#525252&#8221; },<br \/>\n\t\t\tcssTitle: { &#8220;left&#8221;: &#8220;16px&#8221;, &#8220;right&#8221;:&#8221;16px&#8221;, &#8220;top&#8221;:&#8221;8px&#8221; },<br \/>\n\t\t\tcssImage: { &#8220;overflow&#8221;: &#8220;hidden&#8221;, &#8220;width&#8221;:&#8221;auto&#8221;, &#8220;height&#8221;:&#8221;71px&#8221;  },<br \/>\n\t\t\tcssFontSize: { &#8220;title&#8221;: &#8220;16px&#8221;, &#8220;caption&#8221;: &#8220;11.2px&#8221;, &#8220;list&#8221;: &#8220;12px&#8221; },<br \/>\n\t\t\tclasses: { interface:&#8217; verdana-mjp&#8217;, title:&#8217; left-mjp norm-mjp plain-mjp childNorm-mjp childPlain-mjp&#8217;, image:&#8217; Himg right-mjp&#8217;, poscol:&#8221;, ul:&#8217; darken1-mjp verdana-mjp med-mjp childNorm-mjp childPlain-mjp left-mjp&#8217; }} };<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/www.fair.org\/audio\/counterspin\/CounterSpin170825Bennis.mp3\"><strong>MP3 Link<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_5592420\" style=\"width: 361px\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\"><a href=\"http:\/\/fair.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/08\/WaPo-Muscular-Vague.png\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\" wp-image-5592420\" src=\"http:\/\/fair.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/08\/WaPo-Muscular-Vague.png\" alt=\"Washington Post: Trump\u2019s muscular but vague Afghanistan speech, annotated\" width=\"351\" height=\"307\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-caption-text\"><em><strong>Washington Post<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.washingtonpost.com\/news\/the-fix\/wp\/2017\/08\/21\/president-trumps-primetime-address-on-afghanistan-annotated\/?utm_term=.56afa239e121\">8\/21\/17<\/a>)<\/em><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<p><b>Janine Jackson:<\/b> On August 21, Donald Trump gave what one <b>Washington Post<\/b> <a href=\"https:\/\/www.washingtonpost.com\/news\/the-fix\/wp\/2017\/08\/22\/trumps-vague-doctrine-obliterate-crush-and-damn-the-details\/?utm_term=.6ce628ec4b5e\">writer<\/a> called a \u201cmuscular speech\u201d on his plans for the US\u2019s long war in Afghanistan. Corporate media were critical of the lack of detail: How many new troops would be sent? How long exactly until the US annihilates all the terrorists? And media were critical of the messenger: Didn\u2019t what was often benignly described as \u201ccontinued US presence\u201d in Afghanistan contradict Trump\u2019s earlier views?<\/p>\n<p>Less compelling for big media than what it means that this is \u201cTrump\u2019s war now\u201d was what the US-led war has meant every day for Afghan citizens, and what escalation is assured to mean.<\/p>\n<p>Writer and activist Phyllis Bennis directs the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.ips-dc.org\/new-internationalism\/\">New Internationalism<\/a> project at the Institute for Policy Studies. Author most recently of <i>Understanding ISIS and the New Global War on Terror<\/i>, she\u2019s also co-author of <i>Ending the US War in Afghanistan: A Primer<\/i>. She joins us now by phone from Washington, DC. Welcome back to <b>CounterSpin<\/b>, Phyllis Bennis.<\/p>\n<p><b>Phyllis Bennis:<\/b> Great to be with you, Janine.<\/p>\n<p><b>JJ:<\/b> It isn\u2019t to say that there isn\u2019t critical commentary of various stripes; it\u2019s just that some big things seem to be off the page. You could read multiple news reports, for example, that refer to the costs of the war in Afghanistan and occupation, and that reckoned those costs in US troop casualties or fatalities, and in taxpayer dollars. \u00a0What\u2019s missing from this sort of accounting, and then what do you make, in general, of media reaction to Trump\u2019s speech?<\/p>\n<p><b>PB:<\/b> Well, you know, Janine, one of the points in Trump\u2019s speech, when he said at the very beginning that the American people are \u201cweary of war\u201d\u2014he said they\u2019re \u201cweary of war without victory.\u201d What nobody is asking is, are the Afghans weary of war? There have been 67 percent more civilian casualties this year under Trump than the equivalent time of last year. Every year since the UN began keeping records back in 2009, every year the number of civilian casualties has gone up. Every year, it\u2019s been not only more civilians, but more children among the civilians.<\/p>\n<p>What\u2019s interesting, of course, is that nobody was talking after Trump\u2019s speech about his comparison with his so-called rival, John McCain, who just a couple of days before his speech gave his own speech. And McCain\u2019s strategy was not so different, ultimately, than Trump\u2019s. He also talked about sending more troops, sending more airstrikes, giving the military more power. But one of the things that McCain said explicitly, that Trump only implied, was that the goal has to do with the United States: preventing attacks on the US, preventing attacks on Americans. There is no goal of making life better for Afghans.<\/p>\n<p>And that\u2019s really critical. We have been many years now since anybody in power has claimed that we\u2019re waging this war for democracy, or that we\u2019re waging this war to protect the women of Afghanistan. Remember when that used to be a big, popular meme for this war? Laura Bush was big on this issue, a lot of people were, that we\u2019re doing this for the women.<\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_5592417\" style=\"width: 360px\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\"><a href=\"http:\/\/fair.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/08\/Phyllis-Bennis.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\" wp-image-5592417\" src=\"http:\/\/fair.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/08\/Phyllis-Bennis.jpg\" alt=\"Phyllis Bennis (photo: SLOWKING\/Wikimedia)\" width=\"350\" height=\"467\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-caption-text\"><em>Phyllis Bennis:\u00a0 &#8220;After 16 years of US military occupation, the conditions are so dire for ordinary Afghan civilians that Afghanistan is still the very worst country in the world for a child to be born and survive to her first birthday.&#8221; (photo: SLOWKING\/Wikimedia)<\/em><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<p>As it turns out, after 16 years of US military occupation, the conditions are so dire for ordinary Afghan civilians that Afghanistan is still the very worst country in the world for a child to be born and survive to her first birthday. And this is with 16 years of US military engagement in the interest of protecting Afghan women.<\/p>\n<p>So the question of really, what has changed?\u2014whose interest is this?\u2014is not being challenged in the press; it\u2019s not being asked enough. I think what we are seeing is that there\u2019s a willingness to be critical, in the sense that right now in the mainstream press, there\u2019s a willingness to be critical about everything having to do with Trump, and that\u2019s all good. That\u2019s not a bad thing, that\u2019s a good thing. What is missing from it is, one, the recognition of how this has <i>always<\/i> been a failed and failing war, from October 7, 2001, the day the war was launched. It\u2019s been wrong, it\u2019s been illegal under international law, and arguably illegal, today, under US law.<\/p>\n<p><b>JJ:<\/b> You talked about an increase in civilian casualties under Trump, and I see media playing a role in kind of abetting and encouraging this idea that war is very <a href=\"http:\/\/fair.org\/home\/trump-presidential-us-wars-afghanistan-syria\/\">presidential<\/a>. And you have described Trump seeing deploying troops and sending bombs as almost first and foremost &#8220;sending a message,&#8221; and that that has to do with the increase in civilian casualties, that that\u2019s kind of his thing.<\/p>\n<p><b>PB:<\/b> I think that\u2019s absolutely right. I think that the question of why military force is being used has everything to do with sending the message that we as a country are strong and tough, and I as the president am presidential. It\u2019s an assertion of what he doesn\u2019t have on the basis of strategic thinking and ability to inspire people. Absent that, you send the Marines. That\u2019s sort of an old story.<\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_5592419\" style=\"width: 360px\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\"><a href=\"http:\/\/fair.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/08\/WaPo-Raqqa-2.png\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-5592419 \" src=\"http:\/\/fair.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/08\/WaPo-Raqqa-2.png\" alt=\"Washington Post: U.S.-led airstrikes are killing hundreds of civilians in the battle for ISIS-held Raqqa, groups say\" width=\"350\" height=\"364\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-caption-text\"><em><strong>Washington Post<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.washingtonpost.com\/world\/middle_east\/us-led-airstrikes-are-killing-hundreds-of-civilians-in-the-battle-for-isis-held-raqqa-this-summer\/2017\/08\/22\/8c520948-872d-11e7-96a7-d178cf3524eb_story.html?utm_term=.efc42dab1367\">8\/23\/17<\/a>)<\/em><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<p>But it\u2019s extraordinary, the level of increase in civilian casualties that are going on in US wars all around the world. I was looking just this morning, Janine, looking at the <b>Washington Post<\/b>, page 1, page 8, page 9, page 10\u2014headline after headline about the numbers of civilian casualties that are dying and being severely injured by US airstrikes. Whether it\u2019s in <a href=\"https:\/\/www.washingtonpost.com\/world\/middle_east\/after-victory-over-isis-mosul-discovers-the-cost-homes-were-turned-into-graves\/2017\/08\/23\/de1dbd6a-8135-11e7-9e7a-20fa8d7a0db6_story.html?utm_term=.3add071760e8\">Mosul<\/a>, the so-called liberation from ISIS that the US was responsible for, in Iraq; in <a href=\"https:\/\/www.washingtonpost.com\/world\/middle_east\/us-led-airstrikes-are-killing-hundreds-of-civilians-in-the-battle-for-isis-held-raqqa-this-summer\/2017\/08\/22\/8c520948-872d-11e7-96a7-d178cf3524eb_story.html?utm_term=.e7ae1908f67f\">Raqqa<\/a>, Syria, where civilians are now being killed in huge numbers, again by US airstrikes supposedly aimed at ISIS; in <a href=\"https:\/\/www.washingtonpost.com\/world\/saudi-led-coalition-airstrike-kills-dozens-in-yemen-ahead-of-major-rally\/2017\/08\/23\/9b6a57fe-8828-11e7-96a7-d178cf3524eb_story.html?utm_term=.31e7591925ce\">Yemen<\/a>, where the US-backed Saudi coalition is bombing and bombing and bombing, and killing civilians. And interestingly, in the same context, in <a href=\"https:\/\/www.washingtonpost.com\/world\/saudi-led-coalition-airstrike-kills-dozens-in-yemen-ahead-of-major-rally\/2017\/08\/23\/9b6a57fe-8828-11e7-96a7-d178cf3524eb_story.html?utm_term=.31e7591925ce\">Charlottesville<\/a>, where now the United Nations is actually criticizing the United States for racist violence. So what we\u2019re seeing is a real pattern of an increased level of civilian casualties and a decreased level of concern from those in power to stop it. That\u2019s a very dangerous reality.<\/p>\n<p><b>JJ:<\/b> Let me bring you back to another question about perspective. In reading about reaction to Trump\u2019s speech, I found a <a href=\"http:\/\/foreignpolicy.com\/2017\/08\/21\/afghanistan-is-now-trumps-war-10-questions\/\">piece<\/a> in <b>Foreign Policy<\/b> that included the expression:<\/p>\n<blockquote>\n<p>Like many Americans, I struggle with what the United States should do in Afghanistan. The answers are not obvious, and the options are never satisfying.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p>And I was thinking, you know, what I struggle with is the presumption that it\u2019s the right of every American to puzzle out what those people over there ought to do with their country, and then make them do it. The commentator in this case is a former DoD employee, but her take isn\u2019t really that unusual. International law appears to be just kind of a quaint idea for much of the press.<\/p>\n<p><b>PB:<\/b> No, that\u2019s true. Of course, that was the language that the Bush administration memorably used for both the Geneva Conventions and international law, that it was quaint and it was irrelevant.<\/p>\n<p>And that certainly is the case. I will cut a tiny bit of slack to the author that you quoted, and to others in this country who, in a serious way, think about what should US policy be, what are the options, only because after 16 years of military destruction, that followed decades of military attacks throughout the 1980s, when Afghanistan was a major venue for the hot part of the Cold War&#8230;. The US and the Soviet Union were fighting it out in Afghanistan. Of course, some of the people that we were supporting at that time were named Osama bin Laden, and they were the ones who became Al Qaeda later, so that was very much a blowback issue.<\/p>\n<p>But with that history, I think that we do have to recognize that we owe a great debt to the people of Afghanistan. We have destroyed that country, far more than it would have been destroyed internally. So we do owe something to help them rebuild. The really difficult question is, how do we make good on that. We don\u2019t owe military occupation, we don\u2019t owe the imposition, arming, paying of a corrupt leader who has little to no local support, and the creation of a kind of government that has nothing to do with Afghan culture, nothing to do with the history of how Afghans govern themselves over the years when they were not being occupied.<\/p>\n<p>So I think that it is right to say we should think about it. What\u2019s not right is exactly the question that you raise; it\u2019s not our right to decide how they should live now, how they should rebuild their country. We have to figure out a way to make good on our obligations, which has to do with money, it has to do with diplomatic support. It does not include military occupation.<\/p>\n<p>Figuring out how to do that is no easy task, and at this moment, when the State Department has been stripped of so many diplomats\u2014there\u2019s not even an ambassador to Afghanistan at the moment, the office dealing with Afghanistan and Pakistan has simply been closed, shut down, the staff sent somewhere else\u2014that means there are no diplomats available who have the skills and the information to make recommendations that would be taken seriously.<\/p>\n<p>This is what happens when you cut the State Department budget by 30 percent, and turn those billions of dollars over to the Pentagon. You don\u2019t have diplomats? You send the Marines. This is the challenge that we\u2019re now facing. The only option we have, if you talk to people in Washington, is send the military, because there\u2019s no resources anywhere else. So this is a huge challenge for what US foreign policy can and must change.<\/p>\n<p><b>JJ:<\/b> I certainly agree, and I see the desire to use US power for good.<\/p>\n<p><b>PB:<\/b> Doesn\u2019t happen very often.<\/p>\n<p><b>JJ:<\/b> But I guess I also just see the desire to use US power, and the presumption that goes with that. It seems sometimes that a complete, frictionless acceptance of US exceptionalism is just kind of the price of admission for foreign policy debate in the media.<\/p>\n<p><b>PB:<\/b> You\u2019re absolutely right. No, I think you\u2019re absolutely right. The assumption is that a military engagement is the first option. Despite all the language about \u201cthere is no military solution,\u201d we act as if there is only a military solution. And that\u2019s true in Afghanistan, it\u2019s true in Iraq, it\u2019s true in Syria, it\u2019s true in Libya, it\u2019s true all over the world, and this is a huge problem. There is no easy answer, except to start with ending the military part. Get the troops out. That\u2019s not the end game, that\u2019s step one. That\u2019s step one.<\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_5564981\" style=\"width: 360px\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\"><a href=\"http:\/\/fair.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2006\/03\/powell1.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\" wp-image-5564981\" src=\"http:\/\/fair.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2006\/03\/powell1.jpg\" alt=\"Colin Powell at the UN.\" width=\"350\" height=\"243\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-caption-text\"><em>Colin Powell, breaking it.<\/em><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<p>So you remember, Janine, during the early years of the Iraq War, Colin Powell used to use this Pottery Barn analogy: \u201cWe broke it, we fix it.\u201d And I always thought that it was the wrong analogy, that the real analogy is the bull in the china shop. What do you do when the bull gets loose in the china shop and breaks all the cups? You don\u2019t ask the bull to fix the cups, you get the bull the hell out of the china shop, and write a check for the damage. That\u2019s step one. That\u2019s not step end, but that\u2019s step one. That\u2019s what we need to be doing in Afghanistan. Then we need to figure out how to help rebuild in a way that\u2019s not based on military force. That\u2019s not something the US has ever been very good at.<\/p>\n<p><b>JJ:<\/b> We\u2019ve been speaking with Phyllis Bennis, director of the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.ips-dc.org\/new-internationalism\/\">New Internationalism<\/a> project at the Institute for Policy Studies. She\u2019s author, most recently, of <i>Understanding ISIS and the New Global War on Terror<\/i>, and co-author of <i>Ending the US War in Afghanistan: A Primer<\/i>. Thank you very much, Phyllis Bennis, for joining us this week on <b>CounterSpin<\/b>.<\/p>\n<p><b>PB:<\/b> Thank you. It\u2019s good to be with you.<\/p>\n<p><span class=\"et_bloom_bottom_trigger\"><\/span><br \/>\nThis piece was reprinted by <a href=\"http:\/\/rinf.com\">RINF Alternative News<\/a> with permission from <a href=\"http:\/\/fair.org\/home\/this-has-always-been-a-failed-and-failing-war\/\">FAIR<\/a>.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Janine Jackson interviewed Phyllis Bennis about Trump&#8217;s Afghan War escalation for the August 25, 2017, episode of CounterSpin. This is a lightly edited transcript. Play Stop pop out X MP3jPLAYLISTS.MI_0 = [ { name: &#8220;1. 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