{"id":294705,"date":"2017-02-14T01:51:02","date_gmt":"2017-02-14T00:51:02","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/rinf.com\/alt-news\/newswire\/this-is-a-country-thats-in-a-tremendous-crisis-counterspin-interview-with-zaid-jilani-on-the-yemen-raid\/"},"modified":"2017-02-14T01:51:02","modified_gmt":"2017-02-14T00:51:02","slug":"this-is-a-country-thats-in-a-tremendous-crisis-counterspin-interview-with-zaid-jilani-on-the-yemen-raid","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/rinf.com\/alt-news\/newswire\/this-is-a-country-thats-in-a-tremendous-crisis-counterspin-interview-with-zaid-jilani-on-the-yemen-raid\/","title":{"rendered":"\u2018This Is a Country That\u2019s in a Tremendous Crisis\u2019 &#8211; CounterSpin interview with Zaid Jilani on the Yemen raid"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><em>Janine Jackson interviewed Zaid Jilani about Trump&#8217;s Yemen raid for the <a href=\"http:\/\/fair.org\/home\/zaid-jilani-on-trumps-yemen-raid-andrew-rosenberg-on-science-and-resistance\/\">February 3, 2017, episode<\/a> of <strong>CounterSpin<\/strong>. This is a lightly edited transcript.<\/em><\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_5585310\" style=\"width: 609px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><a href=\"http:\/\/fair.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/02\/ZaidJilani.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\" wp-image-5585310\" src=\"http:\/\/fair.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/02\/ZaidJilani.jpg\" alt=\"Zaid Jilani (image: Arn Menconi\/YouTube) \" width=\"599\" height=\"337\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-caption-text\"><em>Zaid Jilani: &#8220;It\u2019s important for people, whenever they address news events, to understand that we don\u2019t live in year zero. There\u2019s always a history and a context.&#8221; (image: <a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/Zy-ynmFPAsQ\">Arn Menconi\/<strong>YouTube<\/strong><\/a>)<\/em><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div id=\"wrapperMI_1\" class=\"wrap-mjp  \" style=\"padding:5px 0px 40px 0px;margin:0px;width:100%\">\n<div class=\"Eabove-mjp\" id=\"Eabove-mjp_1\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"subwrap-MI\">\n<div class=\"jp-innerwrap\">\n<div class=\"innerx\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"innerleft\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"innerright\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"innertab\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"interface-mjp verdana-mjp\" style=\"height:71px\" id=\"interfaceMI_1\">\n<div class=\"MI-image Himg right-mjp\" id=\"MI_image_1\" style=\"width:auto;height:71px;overflow:hidden\"><\/div>\n<div id=\"T_mp3j_1\" class=\"player-track-title left-mjp norm-mjp plain-mjp childNorm-mjp childPlain-mjp\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"bars_holder\">\n<div class=\"loadMI_mp3j\" id=\"load_mp3j_1\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"poscolMI_mp3j\" id=\"poscol_mp3j_1\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"posbarMI_mp3j\" id=\"posbar_mp3j_1\"><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<div id=\"P-Time-MI_1\" class=\"jp-play-time\"><\/div>\n<div id=\"T-Time-MI_1\" class=\"jp-total-time\"><\/div>\n<div id=\"statusMI_1\" class=\"statusMI\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"transport-MI\">\n<div class=\"play-mjp\" id=\"playpause_mp3j_1\">Play<\/div>\n<div class=\"stop-mjp\" id=\"stop_mp3j_1\">Stop<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"buttons-wrap-mjp\" id=\"buttons-wrap-mjp_1\">\n<div class=\"mp3j-popout-MI\" id=\"lpp_mp3j_1\">pop out<\/div>\n<div id=\"download_mp3j_1\" class=\"dloadmp3-MI\"><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<div class=\"mjp-volwrap\">\n<div class=\"MIsliderVolume\" id=\"vol_mp3j_1\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"innerExt1\" id=\"innerExt1_1\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"innerExt2\" id=\"innerExt2_1\"><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<div class=\"Ebetween-mjp\" id=\"Ebetween-mjp_1\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"listwrap_mp3j\" id=\"L_mp3j_1\">\n<div class=\"wrapper-mjp\">\n<div class=\"playlist-colour\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"wrapper-mjp\">\n<ul class=\"ul-mjp darken1-mjp verdana-mjp med-mjp childNorm-mjp childPlain-mjp left-mjp\" id=\"UL_mp3j_1\">\n<li><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div><\/div>\n<div id=\"mp3j_finfo_1\" class=\"mp3j-finfo\">\n<div class=\"mp3j-finfo-sleeve\">\n<div id=\"mp3j_finfo_gif_1\" class=\"mp3j-finfo-gif\"><\/div>\n<div id=\"mp3j_finfo_txt_1\" class=\"mp3j-finfo-txt\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"mp3j-finfo-close\" id=\"mp3j_finfo_close_1\">X<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div id=\"mp3j_dlf_1\" class=\"mp3j-dlframe\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"mp3j-nosolution\" id=\"mp3j_nosolution_1\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"Ebelow-mjp\" id=\"Ebelow-mjp_1\"><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<p>MP3jPLAYLISTS.MI_1 = [<br \/>\n\t{ name: &#8220;1. 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The <b>Times<\/b> says the Pentagon first denied any civilian casualties, then backtracked as evidence came in of such deaths, including children. But that\u2019s no reason not to now quote a Pentagon spokesperson\u2019s statement:<\/p>\n<blockquote>\n<p>We saw during this operation as it was taking place that female fighters ran to pre-established positions as though they\u2019d been trained to be ready and trained to be combatants.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p>Whether they were \u201cfemale fighters\u201d before they ran to these pre-established positions or <i>because<\/i> they did is neither asked nor answered, but the spokesperson does get to wink to the paper\u2019s millions of readers, \u201cTake reports of female casualties with a grain of salt.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>No such caveat attaches to the claim that the Yemen raid yielded valuable materials that will help prevent terror attacks. The paper notes the spokesperson &#8220;did not provide details,&#8221; where another might say what was missing was proof.<\/p>\n<p>So while Trump\u2019s Yemen raid is being called tactically flawed, the near bottomless credulity with which elite media accept the <a href=\"http:\/\/fair.org\/home\/missing-from-reports-of-yemeni-carnage-washingtons-responsibility\/\">official line<\/a> on US actions in Yemen would seem unchanged. Joining us now to talk about it is Zaid Jilani. He\u2019s a reporter for <b>The Intercept<\/b>. Welcome to <b>CounterSpin<\/b>, Zaid Jilani.<\/p>\n<p><b>Zaid Jilani:<\/b> It\u2019s great to be here.<\/p>\n<p><b>JJ:<\/b> In general terms, I\u2019m wondering, is this a departure, does this represent a departure, either of US involvement in the coalition attacks on Yemen, or a departure in terms of US media\u2019s treatment of that involvement?<\/p>\n<p><b>ZJ:<\/b> It\u2019s really interesting; US military, including Special Operations and drones, have been active in Yemen for years, stretching back even through the Bush administration, and certainly in the Obama administration. This raid was targeting Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, which has grown considerably over the past few years, even though there\u2019s an ISIS presence in Yemen now.<\/p>\n<p>And part of the reason that it\u2019s grown is because the Saudi-led coalition, which the United States mostly was supportive of, has been bombing the government in Yemen, which took power, basically, in a coup led by the Houthis. And the Houthis were opponents of Al Qaeda and also of ISIS, and so that civil war in Yemen between the Houthi-led government and the old government of Yemen, which is supported by Saudi Arabia and other countries, has opened up space for groups like Al Qaeda to grow, even ISIS to grow.<\/p>\n<p>The US doesn\u2019t want to directly fight the Houthis, who are basically Saudi Arabia\u2019s enemies right now, but it does want to fight Al Qaeda. So that\u2019s why we\u2019ve seen this sort of action taking place on the side. But the larger situation in the country, that is one of the largest international crises with millions of people on the edge of starvation, seeing the civil war that doesn\u2019t end and the Saudi involvement that doesn\u2019t end. Regardless of whether we\u2019re talking about one raid or another, it\u2019s important to understand the larger situation in Yemen is an international crisis that wasn\u2019t really resolved under the Obama administration, and certainly it looks like the Trump administration is not even talking about resolving that larger crisis, let alone approving raids like this, which, you know, are not too atypical for US policy in the past few administrations.<\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_5585313\" style=\"width: 361px\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\"><a href=\"http:\/\/fair.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/02\/SaudiAmbassador.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\" wp-image-5585313\" src=\"http:\/\/fair.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/02\/SaudiAmbassador.jpg\" alt=\" Saudi Ambassador Abdullah Al-Saud\" width=\"351\" height=\"173\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-caption-text\"><em>Saudi Ambassador Abdullah Al-Saud responds to Zaid Jilani&#8217;s question about cluster bombs. (screengrab: <strong>MintPress News<\/strong>)<\/em><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<p><b>JJ:<\/b> You had an encounter recently with the Saudi ambassador that was interesting in several ways. Can you tell us, first of all, the circumstances of that encounter; where were you?<\/p>\n<p><b>SJ:<\/b> Sure. So there\u2019s an organization called <a href=\"https:\/\/ncusar.org\/\">NCUSAR<\/a>, which is basically a US\/Arab relations group. I mean, it\u2019s backed by many of the Gulf Arab governments, including Saudi Arabia, but also many US businesses that do business between the United States and these countries. Basically they held a conference in Washington, DC, where we had a number of foreign policy discussions.<\/p>\n<p>So the Saudi ambassador was there, he gave some remarks, and that\u2019s when I decided to basically query him a little bit about Yemen, because he had defended the war during his remarks.<\/p>\n<p><b>JJ:<\/b> You asked him about the use of cluster weapons, and he basically treated you as a heckler, almost.<\/p>\n<p><b>ZJ:<\/b> He laughed and called me <i>habibi<\/i>, which is sort of like \u201cdarling\u201d or something in Arabic. I asked him, basically, if they would continue to use these sort of weapons in Yemen, because cluster munitions are not precise weapons and they persist long after the strikes, often, and kids pick them up and are killed by them, and it\u2019s very destructive.<\/p>\n<p>So I asked him if they would continue to use them, and he told me, this is like asking me if I\u2019m going to continue to beat my wife. He made a big joke out of it and laughed about it. He was trying to make light of it what actually is a very serious issue.<\/p>\n<p>The use of these weapons in Yemen actually had Saudi Arabia placed on a UN list of countries that were endangering and killing children. Interestingly, the UN took them off that list, and then the secretary-general basically admitted they took them off the list because Saudi Arabia was threatening to cut funding to the United Nations. They&#8217;re very, very sensitive to criticism about these things. I mean, it\u2019s not a democratic country, and they&#8217;re not a country that is used to intense criticism, either from the UN or from folks like me.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/fair.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/02\/InterceptYemen.png\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright wp-image-5585316\" src=\"http:\/\/fair.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/02\/InterceptYemen.png\" alt=\"Intercept: Former U.S. Diplomats Decry the U.S.-Backed Saudi War in Yemen\" width=\"350\" height=\"334\" \/><\/a>We also wrote an <a href=\"https:\/\/theintercept.com\/2016\/05\/06\/former-u-s-diplomats-decry-the-u-s-backed-saudi-war-in-yemen\/\">article<\/a> in <b>The Intercept<\/b> talking to people who used to be ambassadors there in Yemen, or to Saudi Arabia even, and universally, every single person we talked to thought what they were doing in Yemen was really problematic, and that it had no real end in sight.<\/p>\n<p>So I think they&#8217;ve come under a lot of criticism for their behavior there, but they feel like because they have support from foreign countries&#8211;I mean, they get logistical support and arms shipments from the United States, the United Kingdom, Canada, other places&#8211;they feel like they can keep doing it pretty much forever, which may end up being the case. But the reality is that it\u2019s also sort of becoming their version of Vietnam, and they have suffered retaliatory attacks, and it\u2019s supposed to be ended a long time ago. I mean, they don\u2019t exactly know what they&#8217;ve gotten themselves into. So it may be that the internal situation of the conflict is what ends up overwhelming them politically. But they certainly do feel like they\u2019re insulated, at least, from external criticism.<\/p>\n<p><b>JJ:<\/b> Speaking of that insulation, one of the things that I think folks will find striking about the <a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/2pELWnXefJc\">video<\/a>, and even the <a href=\"https:\/\/theintercept.com\/2016\/11\/01\/saudi-ambassador-to-the-u-s-vows-to-keep-hitting-yemen-no-matter-what\/\">write-up<\/a> of it on <b>The Intercept<\/b>, is it shows how rarely folks like this really face confrontational questioning from reporters. They seem to respond to it so poorly. And one of the things I thought was interesting was to have other reporters back up the question and not allow him to simply deflect it. Do you worry that that kind of direct questioning of the sort that you did is &#8212; it just seems like it\u2019s not that common among corporate media, or mainstream media.<\/p>\n<p><b>ZJ:<\/b> Part of the problem is that I think a lot of people who work in media are not necessarily attuned to these issues; it\u2019s not really a front-burner issue for US politicians, and they tend to let the agenda be set by whatever\u2019s being talked about by the US politicians, and most US politicians, unfortunately, don\u2019t care very much about this topic.<\/p>\n<p>And watching this play out for us at <b>The Intercept<\/b>, this is a topic that we pay a lot of attention to. For us, it\u2019s no sweat to take these questions to them, but there\u2019s also the other question of access, right? I don\u2019t think that the Saudi ambassador would sit down for a formal interview with us. I\u2019ve had to appear at an event like this and just talk to him on the fly, because they are not super interested in talking to people who offer any questions like this. And I think that a lot of mainstream journalists can score those interviews because they won\u2019t ask those questions. And, unfortunately, that\u2019s a trade-off you have when you take this approach.<\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_5584552\" style=\"width: 360px\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\"><a href=\"http:\/\/fair.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/12\/RexTillerson.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\" wp-image-5584552\" src=\"http:\/\/fair.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/12\/RexTillerson.jpg\" alt=\"Rex Tillerson (cc photo: William Munoz)\" width=\"350\" height=\"175\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-caption-text\"><em>Rex Tillerson (cc photo: William Munoz)<\/em><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<p><b>JJ:<\/b> Finally, if you would, I wanted to direct folks also to a <a href=\"https:\/\/theintercept.com\/2017\/01\/12\/rex-tillerson-wants-to-provide-saudi-arabia-with-more-help-to-bomb-yemen\/\">recent piece<\/a> that you wrote or co-wrote, I\u2019m not sure, about Rex Tillerson which connects these issues that we\u2019ve been talking about. What was preeminent in that piece, and how does it link up to what we\u2019re talking about here?<\/p>\n<p><b>ZJ:<\/b> With respect to Tillerson, and he was just confirmed secretary of State actually yesterday, he was actually asked about this conflict, during his confirmation hearing, between Saudi Arabia and what\u2019s happening in Yemen. And basically, he was asked about the use of cluster munitions in the conflict, and his response was something like, well, I mean we can help Saudi with some targeting and we can make sure they\u2019re not hitting noncombatants and things. Which was remarkable, because that\u2019s already what the United States has been doing, providing information that should be doing that. But a big part of the problem is that Saudi Arabia does not seem to have a whole lot of concern about that in the way that they\u2019re prosecuting their war. It\u2019s not a matter of giving them better information.<\/p>\n<p>And, honestly, he seemed almost legitimately ignorant of the fact that the United States had been doing that, almost like he has paid no attention to what\u2019s happening there, which is really remarkable for someone who, as of today, is now responsible for US diplomacy with Saudi Arabia and other countries. And it really shows that a lot of people I think may assume, maybe even I would assume, that the CEO of a large multinational corporation would be highly cognizant and aware of these issues, and respond to them intelligently, but that\u2019s not always the case, and I think that\u2019s certainly the case with how Tillerson responded to that question.<\/p>\n<p><b>JJ:<\/b> Of course, we have Donald Trump now saying the raid was a big success, and that\u2019s the line that the White House is going to put out. So I guess I\u2019d just ask you, finally, if we don\u2019t want the story to drop from the headlines, what would you be encouraging other reporters to be doing right now who are interested in &#8212; who are at least &#8212; maybe just the death of the Navy Seal is enough to start them, but who are going to be looking into the US role in Yemen. What are some directions you might point them for things to look at?<\/p>\n<p><b>ZJ:<\/b> I think the important thing is to look at the broad situation of what\u2019s happening in Yemen. I mean, obviously the details of this operation were quite a disaster, and it will be investigated and litigated. But people should understand this is a country that\u2019s in a tremendous crisis, that rivals probably only Syria in that region, a humanitarian crisis\u2014and a crisis that could be ended should we see an end to the civil war, primarily the Saudi involvement; it would be really positive to see an end to that involvement. That\u2019s something the United States could create. That would also create space for locals to be able to push back against groups like Al Qaeda and ISIS, and reduce the need or any desire for us to be even more militarily involved.<\/p>\n<p>This has been going on for a couple of years now, and unfortunately it\u2019s dropped off the map, because Yemen\u2019s a very poor country and not a lot of countries have a lot of interests there, other than neighboring countries like Saudi Arabia. It\u2019s important for people, whenever they address news events, to understand that we don\u2019t live in year zero. There\u2019s always a history and a context.<\/p>\n<p><b>JJ:<\/b> We\u2019ve been speaking with Zaid Jilani, reporter for <b>The Intercept<\/b>. You can find their work on line at <a href=\"https:\/\/theintercept.com\/\"><b>TheIntercept.com<\/b><\/a>. Zaid Jilani, thank you so much for joining us this week on <b>CounterSpin<\/b>.<\/p>\n<p><b>ZJ:<\/b> Yeah, thank you, Janine.<\/p>\n<p>This piece was reprinted by <a href=\"http:\/\/rinf.com\">RINF Alternative News<\/a> with permission from <a href=\"http:\/\/fair.org\/home\/this-is-a-country-thats-in-a-tremendous-crisis\/\">FAIR<\/a>.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Janine Jackson interviewed Zaid Jilani about Trump&#8217;s Yemen raid for the February 3, 2017, episode of CounterSpin. This is a lightly edited transcript. Zaid Jilani: &#8220;It\u2019s important for people, whenever they address news events, to understand that we don\u2019t live in year zero. There\u2019s always a history and a context.&#8221; (image: Arn Menconi\/YouTube) Play Stop [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2521,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[519],"tags":[],"class_list":{"0":"post-294705","1":"post","2":"type-post","3":"status-publish","4":"format-standard","6":"category-newswire"},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"http:\/\/rinf.com\/alt-news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/294705","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"http:\/\/rinf.com\/alt-news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"http:\/\/rinf.com\/alt-news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/rinf.com\/alt-news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2521"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/rinf.com\/alt-news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=294705"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"http:\/\/rinf.com\/alt-news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/294705\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"http:\/\/rinf.com\/alt-news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=294705"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/rinf.com\/alt-news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=294705"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/rinf.com\/alt-news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=294705"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}