Interrogating Abu Ghraib審問阿布格萊布
Tony Diaz, a former military-police sergeant who served at Abu Ghraib, stares into托尼迪亞茲，一名前軍事警長服務的人在阿布格萊布， stares到 Errol Morris’ 莫里斯（ Errol ' camera and speaks in baffled tones about being called into a shower room at that notorious Baghdad prison where CIA interrogators were beating an Iraqi detainee to death.照相機，操在莫名其妙噸左右被稱為成為一個淋浴室在那個臭名昭著的巴格達監獄，中情局審訊人員被毆打一名伊拉克囚犯死亡。 Diaz says he did not participate in the man’s interrogation and did not beat him; he was ordered to hold the man up and help secure his arms, and he followed those orders.迪亞斯說，他沒有參加在該名男子的審訊，並沒有毆打他，他被飭令舉行，該名男子並有助於確保他的手臂，和他跟這些命令。 While he was doing that, drops of blood fell from the detainee’s battered face onto Diaz’s uniform, and that troubled him.雖然他這樣做，滴血液下跌，從被拘留者的受虐面對上迪亞茲的制服，並困擾他。 He hadn’t done anything wrong, he told Morris, yet the blood made him feel responsible.他沒有這樣做，錯了，他說，莫里斯，但血液使他感到責任。
I don’t mean to demonize Tony Diaz.我不等於妖魔化托尼迪亞茲。 Virtually alone among the interviewees in Morris’ new film實際上，僅其中的受訪者在莫里斯'新電影 “Standard Operating Procedure,” “標準作業程序” an artful, meditative investigation of the infamous一巧妙，冥想的調查臭名昭著 Abu Ghraib photographs 阿布格萊布監獄的照片 and the circumstances that produced them, Diaz seems to be wrestling with his conscience, after his own bewildered and evasive fashion.和的情況下，製作出來的，迪亞茲似乎是摔跤與他的良心，之後，他自己的莫名其妙和迴避的時裝。 (Morris has also co-authored a book of the same title with New Yorker staff writer and Paris Review editor Philip Gourevitch, to be published next month.) （莫里斯還合作撰寫一本書的標題相同的新紐約客工作人員的作家和巴黎檢討編輯弘gourevitch ，要下月發表） 。
Everybody else who was there, from former Brig.其他人都被有，由前準將。 Gen. Janis Karpinski, who commanded the MP’s at Abu Ghraib, down to the specialists and privates who took the fall for the abuses committed there — including Megan Ambuhl, Sabrina Harman and Abu Ghraib poster-child Lynndie England — enthusiastically points fingers and passes the buck: Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld did it; I fell in love with the wrong guy; there were black-hat government agents I couldn’t control; I was just following orders.卡爾平斯基將軍的Janis ，誰指揮國會議員在阿布格萊布，回落到專家和privates了秋季為犯下的侵權行為有-包括梅根a mbuhl，薩布麗娜哈曼和阿布格萊布海報兒童，英格蘭-熱烈點的手指和通過把責任推：切尼和拉姆斯菲爾德沒有，我已經深深愛上了與錯誤的傢伙;有黑帽政府代理人我無法控制;我只是執行命令。
As Morris said to me in our recent interview, welcome to the human species.正如莫里斯對我說，在我們最近的採訪中，歡迎您到人類物種。 But at the risk of sounding like a terrorist-coddling America-hater, the human species in our country, circa 2008, has some issues with moral clarity.但在冠冕堂皇的風險，就像一個恐怖coddling美國-仇恨，人類物種，在我們的國家， circa 2008年，有一些問題與道義上的明確。 If I believed that there was any public appetite for a movie like “Standard Operating Procedure,” I might also believe that it would spark a public conversation about responsibility for the crimes and abuses committed in our name — some we know about and a great many more, one suspects, that we don’t.如果我認為有任何公眾的胃口一部電影一樣， “標準作業程序， ”我也可能認為這將引發市民的交談約責任，對所犯罪行和虐待行為在我們的名字-一些我們所知道的一個偉大的許多此外，一嫌疑人，我們不。 If we’re honest with ourselves, which is a pretty tall order, we might find ourselves in Tony Diaz’s position: We didn’t do anything wrong, so how did that blood get on our clothes?如果我們對自己誠實，這是一個相當高的一聲令下，我們可能會發現自己在托尼迪亞茲的立場：我們沒有做任何錯誤的，所以如何做血液得到我們的衣服呢？
But it’s evident, as Morris has observed elsewhere, that the American people don’t care about torture.但它的明顯的，正如莫里斯已觀察到其他地方，這對美國人民不關心酷刑。 We don’t mind it, in fact, as long as we don’t have to see it or think about it.我們不介意它，事實上，只要我們並沒有看到它或想一想。 If it’s called something else, like “harsh treatment” or “stress positions” or “special tactics,” so much the better, although I doubt the euphemisms are fooling anybody.如果它的所謂的東西，否則，像“苛刻待遇”或“強調的立場”或“特殊戰術” ，那就更好了，雖然我無疑是委婉的說法是在欺騙任何人。 Morris’ mission in “Standard Operating Procedure,” in part, is to restore human dimensions to people like Ambuhl and England and Harman who have arguably committed evil and contemptible acts.莫里斯的使命，在“標準作業程序” ，在部分，是恢復人的方面，以人喜歡ambuhl英格蘭和哈曼的人可以說是致力於邪惡和卑鄙的行為。 Some critics have suggested that Morris is justifying their conduct by placing it in the broader context of the paranoia, conformity and oppression that afflicted the military campaign in Iraq and Abu Ghraib in particular.有論者建議，莫里斯的理由是他們的行為將它放在更廣闊的背景的偏執，整合和壓迫，折磨的軍事行動在伊拉克和阿布格萊布特別是。
I don’t see it that way.我不明白這樣說。 Intentionally or not, Morris’ interviews with these confused, vacuous and morally rudderless people felt to me like a sweeping indictment of those of us who are their fellow citizens and who share the culture that produced them.有意或無意，莫里斯訪談與這些困惑，空泛和道義上rudderless人認為，我像一個清掃起訴書中，我們這些人是他們的同胞公民和人分享的文化，製作出來的一樣。 Lynndie England, in particular, is pretty hard to take. ，英格蘭，尤其是相當難走。 Out on parole after three years in prison, she looks battered and puffy, closer to 40 than 25, and remains completely without insight into how her affair with former Cpl.列於假釋，三年後在獄中，她期待受虐和puffy ，接近40比25 ，並且仍然是完全沒有深入了解她的內政，與前CPL中。 Charles Graner (the alleged mastermind of many of the abusive acts shown in the photos) led her to collaborate in the sexual humiliation and ritual degradation of Iraqi detainees.查爾斯格拉納（被指稱的主腦，許多虐待行為，顯示在照片）率領她的合作，在性羞辱和禮儀退化的伊拉克戰俘。
Listening to her talk, I felt only contempt and disgust — contempt for this beaten-down, dull-witted woman for the things she has done and disgust with myself for being unable to muster more than a faint flicker of compassion.聽她談話，我覺得只有蔑視和厭惡-蔑視這毆打式，呆板機智的女子的東西，她所做的和厭惡與自己為無法鼓起以上的微弱閃爍的同情心。 Unfortunately, the people who really deserve our compassion, the Iraqi men brutalized at Abu Ghraib and other places, are absent from Morris’ film.不幸的是，人，實在值得我們的同情，伊拉克男子摧殘，在阿布格萊布和其他地方，是缺席莫里斯電影。 He says he tried to find the men in the photographs, but many remain unidentified and others have disappeared.他說，他試圖找到在男子的照片，但很多仍然不明及其他已經消失。 (As for Charles Graner, he remains in prison, and Morris’ requests to interview him were refused.) （至於查爾斯格拉納，他仍然在監獄中，莫里斯要求採訪他被拒絕） 。
To some degree, Morris is motivated by a Susan Sontag-style epistemological critique of photography: We think a photograph offers us the unvarnished truth, and all it really gives us is a moment, divorced from context and history.在一定程度上，莫里斯的動機是由蘇珊桑塔格式的認識論的批判攝影：我們認為一張照片，為我們提供了unvarnished的真相，以及所有它真的讓我們是一個時刻，脫離背景和歷史的檢驗。 While this does not strike me as the most urgent element of “Standard Operating Procedure,” he makes a persuasive case that many of the Abu Ghraib photos don’t show us what we think they do, and that some of the episodes depicted were staged specifically to be photographed (and might not otherwise have occurred).而這並不罷工，我作為最緊迫的組成部分“標準作業程序” ，他作出了有說服力的情況下，許多阿布格萊布照片不告訴我們，我們覺得他們做的，有些情節描述的被上演特別是拍照（並有可能不會發生） 。
One especially shocking一，特別是令人震驚 set of photos 一套照片 shows Sabrina Harman, wearing an awkward smile and giving the thumbs-up signal, next to the corpse of Manadel al-Jamadi, the man Tony Diaz saw beaten to death in the shower room.顯示薩布麗娜哈曼，身穿一尷尬的微笑，並給予大拇指行動的信號，旁邊的屍體manadel他就這麼做了，該名男子托尼，迪亞茲看到毆打致死，在淋浴室。 Despite the grotesque inappropriateness of her gesture, Harman had nothing to do with his death, and at least in her mind she was helping to expose the crime.儘管怪誕是不適當的，她的姿態，哈曼已經完全沒有與他的死刑，並至少在她心目中，她幫助揭露了犯罪。 Morris makes the valid point that without her photographs, al-Jamadi would simply be another Iraqi who disappeared into US custody and never came back.莫里斯，使有效的一點，沒有她的照片，他就這麼做只是另一個伊拉克失踪的美軍羈押和再也沒有回來。
I don’t think Morris is arguing that Graner, England, Harman, et al., are morally blameless, but he is suggesting that they were scapegoated for revealing the systematic torture that was already happening on a broad scale at Abu Ghraib and elsewhere, rather than covering it up.我不認為莫里斯是辯稱，格拉納，英格蘭，哈曼等人，在道義上無可指責，但他暗示，他們scapegoated為揭示系統地使用酷刑，這是已經發生的事情就一項廣泛的規模在阿布格萊布和其他地方，而非涵蓋了。 They were unprepared, poorly trained soldiers sent into a frightening and lawless “Lord of the Flies” environment, and they were unable or unwilling to resist it.他們措手不及，不善訓練有素的士兵送入一個可怕的無法無天的“蠅王”的環境，他們不能或不願抵制。 There’s enough blame there to pass around.有足夠的責任，有通過左右。
Perhaps the most chilling moment in the film arrives when Brent Pack, a former special agent with the Army’s Criminal Investigations Division who analyzed the Abu Ghraib photos, discusses the most famous ones.或許最令人心寒的時刻，在電影抵達時，北海布倫特包，一名前特工與軍隊的刑事調查部的人士分析，阿布格萊布的照片，討論最有名的。 Naked men piled in a human pyramid, forced to masturbate, or pulled around on a dog collar?赤裸著身子的男人堆在一個人的金字塔，強迫手淫，或拉左右就狗領？ Yes, those incidents count as torture.是的，這些事件計數作為酷刑。 But a naked man shacked to a steel bed frame with women’s panties over his head?但赤裸男子shacked一鋼床框架與婦女的內褲，超過他的頭部？ Or, most famous of all, the hooded man known only as或者，最有名的一切，蒙面男子，只知道作為 “Gilligan,” “吉利根” standing on a box with fake electrical wires on his fingers?站在箱子上與假冒電線，他的手指呢？ Those things are not torture.這些東西是不是酷刑。 That’s standard operating procedure.這是標準作業程序。
In person at a New York hotel, Errol Morris was alternately friendly and argumentative, and nearly as evasive as some of his interviewees.在人在New York酒店，莫里斯（ Errol是交替的友好和議論，近作為迴避，因為他的一些受訪者。 As a way of lampooning his critics, he badgered me into apologizing for my prejudices about the Sabrina Harman photos — prejudices that, with the luxury of hindsight, I’m not sure I ever held.作為一種lampooning他的批評，他指責我到道歉，為我的偏見有關薩布麗娜哈曼照片-偏見，與豪華事後，我不相信我以往任何時候都舉行。 As you can probably tell, the apology was not heartfelt or authentic at the time, but now that I look at the interview again, I won’t retract it.正如你也許可以告訴，道歉並不表示衷心的或真實的，在時間，但現在，我期待在採訪時再次，我不會收回。 I’ve got plenty of things to atone for.我已經得到很多東西，以贖罪。 Hey, what the hell is this stain on my shirt?嘿，什麼地獄，這是玷污了我的襯衣？
You know, in terms of the Abu Ghraib photographs — how they came about, who is to blame and the climate in which all of it happened — I find myself almost more bewildered having seen your film than I was before. 你也知道，在條款阿布格萊布的照片-他們如何來約，是誰的錯和氣候，其中所有的事-我發現自己幾乎更莫名其妙看過你的電影比我之前。 Is that a good thing? 這是一個好事嗎？
You have to explain that a little bit more to me.你要解釋，多一點給我。 Why are you bewildered?為什麼你莫名其妙？
Well, the question that a lot of people are going to want answered is about who is to blame for the things we saw in the Abu Ghraib photographs. 那麼，問題有很多人會想回答是關於是誰的錯的東西，我們看到在阿布格萊布的照片。 In a sense, your film really isn’t about that, is it? 在某種意義上說，您的電影真的是沒有一點，是什麼呢？
No, it’s not.不，這不是。 Everybody is, of course, fascinated by that question.大家的，當然是著迷這個問題。 Who can I blame?我可以和誰的責任呢？ Who can be blamed for this?誰可以歸咎於這個呢？ Who is responsible?由誰負責？ Whose fault is it?其故障是什麼呢？ Questions really not so easy to answer.問題真的不那麼容易回答的問題。 Part of the problem with this whole story is the photographs seemingly gave us someone to blame.問題的一部分，這是整個故事的照片似乎給了我們有人的責任。 I believe Bush won reelection in 2004 because of the photographs.我相信布什贏得連任，因為在2004年的照片。 The day that the Abu Ghraib photographs became public, he could say, “This is the worst day of my presidency.” But on the flip side, he had someone to blame for the failure of the Iraq war effort.一天，阿布格萊布的照片，成為市民，他可以說， “這是最壞的一天我擔任主席。 ”但在另一面，他曾有人歸咎於未能對伊拉克戰爭的努力。
The so-called seven bad apples. 那些所謂7壞蘋果。
The so-called bad apples.那些所謂壞蘋果。 You want to know why the war is going south?你想知道為什麼這場戰爭是去南方？ You want to know why the insurgency is growing?你想知道為什麼叛亂是成長？ You want to know why the Arab world hates our guts?你想知道，為什麼阿拉伯世界的仇視我們的膽量？ These guys.這些傢伙。
A few people who did a few bad things. 幾個人，做了數壞事。
These guys and the photographs that they took that made America look bad.這些傢伙和照片，他們認為，使美國看壞。 It became an odd blame game.它成為一個多歸咎於遊戲。 Doesn’t matter if you’re on the left or on the right — Salon, I know, is an extreme right-wing publication.不要緊，如果您在左邊或在右邊-沙龍，我知道，這是一個極端的右翼出版。
That’s right. 說的權利。
It doesn’t matter whether you’re on the left or the right, these guys are monsters.不要緊，您是否對左或右，這些傢伙是怪物。 If you’re on the left, you say they’re monsters because of Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld.如果您在左邊，你說他們的怪獸，因為布什和切尼和拉姆斯菲爾德。 If you’re on the right, they’re monsters because they’re monsters, they’re bad apples.如果您的權利，他們的怪獸，因為他們是怪獸，他們壞蘋果。 On their own initiative, they chose to do these things that you see depicted in the photographs.他們自己的主動性，他們選擇了做這些事情，您會看到所描繪的照片。 What I’ve tried to do is go beyond that.我所試圖做的，是超越了這一點。 One of the things that fascinates me about the story is that no one looked beyond the pictures.的事情之一吸引我有關的故事，是沒有人期待超越了圖片。 They saw the pictures and that stopped everybody dead in their tracks.他們看到的圖片和停止每個人都死在他們的軌道。 Everyone had an opinion about them.大家一見他們。 Everyone thought that they knew what was being shown in the photographs, everybody thought they knew what these photographs were about.每個人都認為他們知道什麼被顯示在照片，大家都以為他們知道這些照片。 I felt I didn’t.我覺得我沒有。
It surprised me then that no one had ever really talked to any of the people who took the photographs about, “Hey, what did you think you were doing?它驚訝我當時沒有人真的以往任何時候都談過任何有關的人了照片， “嘿，什麼，你認為你在做什麼？ What’s shown in this photograph?什麼的表現在這張照片？ What’s this photograph about?” Any of that.這是什麼照片呢？ “任何表示。 So that’s the genesis of the film; it’s trying to contextualize photographs that everybody in the world has seen but nobody knows anything about.這樣的成因電影，它的嘗試contextualize的照片， 大家都在世界上看到了，但沒有人知道什麼。
As you develop more and more testimony and interview a lot of people who were present when those photographs were taken, the situation becomes murkier and murkier. 正如你發展，越來越多的證詞和採訪了很多的人，目前這些照片時，採取了，情況變得murkier和murkier 。 I think that’s fair to say. 我認為這是公平的說法。 All these people who weren’t trained for the job were being told to extract information, or make it possible for others to extract information. 所有這些的人，不是職業培訓，正在告訴提取信息，或可能使他人提取信息。 One of the things that disturbed me greatly is the idea that there were prisoners in Abu Ghraib who were never officially registered, and mysterious people from “other government agencies” whose status was not understood by the soldiers. 的事情之一不安，我是大大的想法有囚犯在阿布格萊布的人從來沒有正式註冊，和神秘的人從“其他政府機構” ，其地位是不理解的士兵。
Yes, the OGAs.是的， ogas 。
What the hell was going on there? 什麼是地獄，去那裡呢？ That’s verging on nightmarish fiction about the clandestine operations of the US government. 這是瀕臨夢魘小說有關的秘密行動的美國政府。
I would not say verging on nightmarish fiction.我不會說瀕臨惡夢般的小說。 I would call this an actual nightmare.我想這是一個實際的噩夢。 I have often described the movie as a nonfiction horror movie.我常常形容影片作為散文恐怖電影。 And it is.這是。 It was a descent into nightmare.這是一個後裔成為一場惡夢。 In many ways, I think the entire country is descending into a kind of nightmare because — big surprise — I think these photographs have something to say about the entire war effort and something to say about us as a country.在許多方面，我認為整個國家是降成一種噩夢，因為-大驚喜-我覺得這些照片有話要說約整個戰爭的努力和一些說，關於我們作為一個國家。
Not something good. 不是一件好事。
Well, I will allow you to decide.那麼，我將讓您來決定。 How about this?又如何呢？ Something potentially not good.一些潛在的，也不是好事。
You interview, among others, the infamous Lynndie England, the young woman who was seen in many of the photographs, and took a lot of the photographs. 你的採訪，除其他外，臭名昭著的，英格蘭，這位年輕的女子，她被認為是在許多的照片，並採取了很多照片。 Also Megan Ambuhl, Sabrina Harman and others who were there. 也梅根ambuhl ，薩布麗娜哈曼和其他人有。 It seems as if you’ve tried to humanize these people, make them appear as familiar, ordinary Americans. 看來，如果你已經試過以人性化，這些人，使它們顯得熟悉，普通美國人。 Is that fair? 這是否公平？
Yes, it is.是的，它是。 It’s taking people that everyone looks at as monstrous and bringing them back into the world of people, like you and me.它的以人為本，人人看作為滔天並使其重新融入世界的人一樣，你和我。 That in itself is going to be controversial.這本身就是將會引起爭議。
It already is. 它已經是。 I know people who are saying, “He’s trying to exonerate them, to say they’re blameless because it was Cheney and Rumsfeld that created the situation …” 我知道的人，他說： “他的企圖開脫他們，說他們很清白，因為這是切尼和拉姆斯菲爾德創建的情況… … ”
That is not true.這是不正確的。 I do not see these people as lily-white, as blameless, as devoid of responsibility or choice.我不明白這些人作為百合-白色，作為清白，作為缺乏責任，或選擇。 But I do think that many of the pictures have been misunderstood.但我認為很多的照片被人誤解。 That’s not the same thing as saying that I think that they share no responsibility for what happened there.這不是同一件事的話說，我認為他們分享概不負責那裡發生的事情。 I don’t believe that.我不相信。
Going beyond that question that we talked about at the beginning, of who is ultimately to blame, the question of responsibility kind of tortured me as this movie moved forward because … 走出去這個問題，我們談到了在開始時，誰是最終的責任，責任的問題種折磨我為這部電影向前發展，因為…
Good!良好的！
Because there isn’ta single person in your film who seems willing to take responsibility for their role, be it large or small. 因為有不是的單身人士，在您的電影人似乎願意承擔責任，他們的作用，無論是大國還是小國。
Well, this is, by the way…那麼，這是由的方式…
Everybody is passing the buck to someone else. 大家是通過將責任推卸給別人。
Yeah, well, welcome to the human species.是啊，好，歡迎您到人類物種。 [Laughter.] What interests me is that we look at things and we want them instantly simplified for us. [眾笑。 ]什麼利益，我就是我們看待事物和我們希望他們立即簡化為我們。 We want to be told that this person did X, Y and Z and now they’re sorry for it and they’d like to apologize, they’d like to ask your forgiveness.我們要告訴這個人沒有x ， y和z ，現在他們很抱歉，因為他們想要道歉，他們想要問您的寬恕。 When I made當我取得 “The Fog of War” “戰爭迷霧” …
Your film about Robert McNamara, the former secretary of defense, which won an Academy Award. 您的電影約，麥克納馬拉，前國防部長，這贏得了奧斯卡獎。
Yes.是。 I was asked repeatedly, “Is he sorry?有人問我，反复“ ，這是他對不起？ Did he express remorse?他表示悔意？ Why didn’t he say he was sorry and express remorse in the film?” Of course, the whole film is about Robert McNamara’s feelings of remorse and regret.為什麼沒有，他說他很抱歉，並表示悔意，在電影“ ？當然，整個電影是關於羅伯特麥克納馬拉的感情，悔恨和遺憾。 But people want a certain kind of morality play.但是，人們想了某種道德的發揮。 They want their feelings of right and wrong to be unambiguously affirmed.他們希望他們的感情，正確與錯誤的要毫不含糊地肯定。 And if it isn’t done they tend to get pretty goddamn nasty.如果它沒有這樣做，他們往往獲得相當goddamn討厭。 I don’t see it as my job to get people to say they’re sorry.我不認為這是我的工作就是讓人們說他們很抱歉。 Well, maybe I could try it on you.以及，也許我可以嘗試，這對你。 This is an opportunity I could avail myself of, that I haven’t done so far.這是一個機會，我可以利用自己的，我沒有這樣做。 Are you sorry for this interview?你很抱歉這次採訪？
Not yet. 現在還沒有。
Would you like to apologize to me right now and get it over with?你想道歉，我現在的權利和獲得它呢？
I’ll save that for another occasion. 我將保存為另一個場合。
I think you should do it now.我認為你應該現在就這樣做。 I know it’s going to be very, very difficult for you.我知道這將是非常，非常艱難的給你。
But you think it will be therapeutic in the long run? 但你是否認為這將是治療在長遠來說呢？
I think it’s going to help you even more than it’s going to help me.我認為它的去幫助你，甚至多於它的去幫助我。
I think I’ll pass. 我想我會通過。
And I’m your friend!我和你的朋友！
Will you be more my friend if I apologize to you? 你會更我的朋友，如果我向你道歉？
I think I’m going to be your friend regardless, I want to say that upfront.我覺得我要成為你的朋友不論，我想說的前期。 But I would like to see you become more of who you are by apologizing to me now.但我想看到你變得更加的你是誰道歉，以我現在。
So this is what people wanted you to do to Lynndie England, for example? 因此，這是什麼人要你做，英格蘭，例如？
I don’t know what the hell people wanted me to do.我不知道地獄的人要我做的。 I know I don’t want to do that.我知道我不想這樣做。 Also I had these fantasies — OK, McNamara is described as the chief architect of the Vietnam War.還我這些幻想-確定，麥克納馬拉是形容的總設計師，越南戰爭。 Now, whether you buy into this or not, let’s say he is for the sake of argument.現在，不管你購買到這或不是，讓我們說，他是為了論點。 You want to blame someone for the Vietnam War?你想責怪某人為越南戰爭？ Let’s pick this guy.讓我們挑選這個傢伙。
So I guess the goal of the interview was, Robert S. McNamara at some point says to me, “Errol, I’d like to apologize for the death of the 2.5 million Vietnamese in the Vietnam War.” I ask myself, do I want to hear him say this to me?所以我猜想的目標訪談，美國羅伯特麥克納馬拉在一些點說，對我來說， “ （ Errol ，我想道歉，死亡250萬越南人在越南戰爭， ”我問自己，我不想聽到他說這是我嗎？ And my answer?和我的答案呢？ No!否！ I don’t want to hear this.我不想聽到這個。 First of all, who in the hell am I?首先，誰在地獄，我呢？ I’ma Jew from Long Island.我是猶太人，從長遠島嶼。 I am not a Catholic priest.我不是一個天主教神父。 I don’t want to hear your confession, I don’t want to hear you apologize, I don’t want to hear you say, “I’m really, really, really sorry.” I just want you to tell me your story.我不想聽到你的供述，我不想聽到你道歉，我不想聽到你說， “我真的，真的，真的很抱歉。 ”我只是想讓你告訴我，您的故事。 I just want to have some kind of access to your skull, as it were.我只想有一些種存取您的顱骨，因為它被。 I want to be able to see how you see the world, how you think.我希望能夠看到您如何看世界，你認為如何。 If part of that is the excuses you’ve made for yourself for your behavior, fine.如果一部分，這是藉口，你所做的為自己為你的行為，罰款。 That’s part of the deal.這是協議的一部分。 I welcome that information.我歡迎這方面的資料。
But by the way, if at any time during the interview you feel the need to apologize to me, you can interrupt at any time and just say you’re sorry.但由的方式，如果在任何時候在採訪過程中，您覺得有需要道歉，對我來說，您可以中斷在任何時間，只是說你很抱歉。
I’ll bear that in mind. 我會記住這一點。 I wanted to ask you about the question of photography, which plays a big role in this film. 我想請你約的問題，攝影，扮演一個大角色在這部電影。 You’ve said … 您說…
Are you sorry about photography?你很抱歉關於攝影？
I’m very sorry about photography. 我很抱歉，關於攝影。 I’m sorry that I trusted photography, apparently. 我很抱歉，我信任的攝影 ， 顯然。 One key to your film is the idea that photographs don’t always tell us what we think they tell us. 其中的關鍵是你的電影的想法的照片，並不總是告訴我們什麼，我們認為，他們告訴我們。 We jump to conclusions about them that may not be supported by the evidence, once we know more. 我們跳轉到的結論，他們可能不支持的證據，一旦我們知道更多。
Yeah, that’s correct.是啊，這是正確的。 They tear a piece of reality away, you don’t see anything more than the picture.他們撕毀一塊遠離現實，您沒有看到任何東西都顯得比圖片。 It’s kind of obvious but it’s forgotten.它的種明顯，但它的被遺忘。 You don’t see above and below, to the left and to the right.你沒有看見上方和下方，左邊和右邊。 You don’t see before and after.您沒有看到之前和之後。 You don’t see all those things that weren’t photographed.您沒有看到所有這些事情被認為是不拍照。 You see a photograph, you think, “I’ve seen everything,” when you have seen very, very, very little.您會看到一張照片，你認為， “我見過的一切， ”當你看到非常，非常，非常小。 In fact, you may not even see what’s in the frame of the picture.其實，你甚至有可能不會看到什麼的，在幀的圖片。 The Sabrina Harman picture of the smile and the thumbs up [with al-Jamadi’s body].該薩布麗娜哈曼圖片的微笑和大拇指[與Al賈馬迪的屍體] 。 Good lord, I’m talking to Salon.良好的主啊，我說的，以沙龍。 You have outed more of these pictures over the years than anyone else.你有更多的outed這些圖片多年來比誰都。 It’s kind of part of the Salon brand, the photographs of Abu Ghraib.它的種的一部分，美容院品牌，照片阿布格萊布。 This picture, easily found on your site, of Sabrina with her thumbs up and the smile.此圖片，很容易找到您的網站上，薩布麗娜與她的大拇指和微笑。
Next to a dead guy. 旁邊的死傢伙。
Next to a dead guy, al-Jamadi.旁邊的死傢伙，他就這麼做了。 Now, people, OK, here’sa chance for you to say you’re sorry.現在，人民，確定，這裡的機會，你說你很抱歉。 I’ve been looking for it.我一直在尋找它。 You looked at that photograph, and what did you think?你看這照片，什麼你覺得呢？
I was horrified by it, of course. 我感到震驚，當然。
Go on.繼續下去。
I was horrified because the expression on her face is one of apparent enjoyment. 我感到震驚，因為表達對她的臉，是一個明顯的享受。 She seems to be relishing this moment, standing next to someone who appears to have died a violent death. 她似乎是relishing這個時刻，站在旁邊的人似乎已經死於非命。
OK, do you think that she’s responsible for his violent death?確定，你是否認為她的負責他的暴力致死的呢？
One asks oneself that question. 一問自己這個問題。 I didn’t know for sure. 我不知道是肯定的。
But isn’t there the assumption?但是不存在的假設？ You see this .您會看到這一點。 . 。 . 。
Sure, you could look at it and assume, probably. 當然，你可以看看它，並承擔可能。 I can’t tell you what I thought at the time. 我不能告訴你什麼 ，我以為在時間。
It’s hard to remember what I thought when I first saw the photograph, because now I know so much more about it.它很難記得什麼，我以為當我第一次看到照片，因為我現在知道這麼多關於它的。 I remember this argument that I had with one of my editors.我記得這個論點，我已與我的一位編輯。 We were editing that section on al-Jamadi, and he was saying to me, “How can you get past that smile?我們的編輯認為，一節他就這麼做了，他說對我來說， “你如何能獲得過去的微笑？ She’sa monster.” And I said, “I can get beyond it very easily.” What are we looking at in this photograph? she'sa怪物。 “和我說： ”我可以超越它很容易。 “是什麼，我們看在這張照片？ We’re looking at a man who was murdered by the CIA, by a CIA officer who has never been charged with any wrongdoing in connection with this man’s death.我們正在尋求一個人被謀殺，由中央情報局，由一名美國中央情報局人員，從來沒有被落案控以任何不法行為他涉嫌與這名男子的死因。 He was brought in by Navy Seals and CIA operatives early in the morning of Nov. 4, 2003.他被帶到在由海豹突擊隊和中央情報局特工早在上午， 2003年11月4日。 Within two and a half hours of his arrival at Abu Ghraib, he was dead.在兩個半小時，他在抵達阿布格萊布，他死了。 He walked in under his own power, and two and a half hours later he was dead.他走在根據自己的權力，和兩個半小時後他死了。 The various officers conspired to find a way to sneak the body out of the prison without anyone knowing that a murder had occurred.各種人員的陰謀，找到一種方法，潛入身體走出監獄沒有任何人知道，一宗謀殺案的發生。 They wanted to pose him as a heart attack victim.他們希望造成他作為一個心髒病發作的受害者。
Sabrina had been told by her commanding officer that this man had died of a massive heart attack.薩布麗娜曾告訴她的指揮人員，這名男子已經死亡，一個大規模的心髒病發作。 Sabrina’s father and her brother are cops.薩布麗娜的父親和她的弟弟是警察。 She herself wanted to be a forensic photographer.她希望成為一名法醫的攝影師的要求。 She went into the Army because she thought she would get money for an education and she could pursue this career.她走進軍隊，因為她以為自己會得到金錢的教育和她可以追求這個職業。 She and [Ivan] Frederick and [Charles] Graner got the extra key, stole into the shower room and took these pictures.她和[伊凡]馮檢和[查爾斯]格拉納得到額外的關鍵，偷到淋浴室，並採取了這些圖片。 Most people don’t remember the pictures of the corpse, the forensic photographs that she took, over a dozen of them, showing the nature and extent of al-Jamadi’s injuries.大多數人不記得的照片，屍體，法醫照片，她上台，超過十人，顯示的性質和程度，他就這麼做了的人受傷。 She was in no way involved with the coverup, she was in no way involved with the murder, she was lied to by her commanding officers and she imagined herself as exposing the military and the crime that occurred there by taking the photographs.她是在沒有辦法所涉及的與coverup ，她是在沒有辦法參與謀殺，她被欺騙了她的指揮軍官和她想像自己是揭露軍隊和犯罪發生的有以拍照。 The way I look at it is, under a different set of circumstances, she would be given a Pulitzer Prize in photography and not a year in military prison.的方式，我期待在它是根據一套不同的情況下，她將會獲得普立茲獎，在攝影而不是一個年在軍事監獄。 And what is her crime?什麼是她的罪行？ No one else was ever in prison in connection with al-Jamadi’s death.沒有其他人都在監獄中涉嫌與基地賈馬迪的死因。 What is her crime?什麼是她的罪行？
Exposing it. 揭露它。
Her crime is exposing a murder!她的罪行是揭露一宗謀殺案！ It’s actually even worse than that, her crime is embarrassing America, the administration and the military.它實際上，甚至不如，她的罪行是令人尷尬的美國，政府和軍隊。 The crime isn’t murder!犯罪不是謀殺！ God forbid the crime should be murder.但願上帝阻止犯罪，應謀殺罪。 Now, here’s your opportunity: You thought certain things about that photograph.現在，在這裡您有機會：你以為某些事情，認為照片。 I’d like you, right now, to apologize to me for having thought those things!我想你，現在，道歉，我有想過這些東西！
I apologize for having those thoughts cross my mind. 我很抱歉，因為這些想法兩岸我心目中。 I’m deeply sorry. 我深感抱歉。
It’sa deal.這是處理。
“Standard Operating Procedure” opens April 25 in New York, Los Angeles and other major cities, with wider release to follow. “ 標準作業程序 ” 開幕4月25日在紐約，洛杉磯和其他大城市，在更大範圍內發布依循。
See More: 看到更多的： Iraq 伊拉克 Terrorism 恐怖主義 USA News 美國新聞
Free Newsletter 免費通訊 
Related News 相關新聞
- General: Bush knew about Abu Ghraib一般：布什知道阿布格萊布
- C4 to screen dying Diana pictures C4的屏幕上，以戴安娜死亡的照片
- Film Screening: 9/11 Ripple Effect - Morecambe放映電影： 9 / 11波及效應-m orecambe
- National ID card plan faces flaw全國身份證的計劃所面臨的缺陷
- Jimmy Carter: US Tortures Prisoners卡特：美國拷打囚犯
Email This Page To A Friend 電子郵件此頁給朋友
Latest Headlines 最新的新聞標題
- Amnesty accuses Moz police of torture特赦組織指控萬盎司警察酷刑
- Increasing use of council surveillance powers越來越多地使用會的監察權力
- Green Scare State Terrorism綠色嚇跑國家恐怖主義
- Lawmaker Threatens Subpoenas for Aides國會議員威脅的傳票，為助手
- New CSI Tool Analyzes Antibodies新的貨櫃安全倡議的工具，分析了抗體
- US reveals way to get off terror list美國揭示的方式要下車恐怖名單
- Corporate America美國公司
- Iraq mass graves yield 100 bodies伊拉克萬人坑產量100具屍體
- Iraqi political leaders protest US siege of Sadr City伊拉克政治領導人，抗議美國的圍困薩德爾城
- Top brands in OFT price-fixing probe頂級品牌在多次操縱價格探針
More更多 Breaking News突發新聞
Archive 存檔