The Wolfsangel symbol of Adolf Hitler’s SS on a banner in Ukraine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1QH03NtVQ0

Published to youtube on Nov 24, 2014. Posted here by Eric Zuesse on November 27th.

English-language summary:

Documentary from Channel 5 TV in Russia, the “Moment of Truth” Channel, a Russian public television (government-controlled) channel.

Latest Information about the crash of the Malaysian Boeing in the sky over Ukraine on July 17th is presented in the new documentary from documentary film-maker Andrei Karaulov “How Died the MH17 Boeing?” Journalist Arkady Mamontov reports.

Interest in the Western world to investigate the ‘accident’ happening to the Malaysian airliner disappeared immediately after Russia gave the world community irrefutable documentary evidence that our country is not in any way involved in this tragedy, and that most of the facts indicate that what brought down the Boeing 777 was the Ukrainian Air Force.

This documentary identifies for the first time the 299th squadron of the Air Force of Ukraine, a fighter-jet Su-25, hull numbers 06,07,08 and 38, which, contrary to the statement of the General Staff of Ukraine, was indeed in the air there on 17 July 2014 [the date of shoot-down].

Malaysian Boeing 777, MH17, according to our data, was shot by Su-25, hull number 08, which was piloted by Lt. Col. Ukrainian Air Force Dmytro Yakatsuts, who from July 18 to this day is in the U[nited] A[rab] E[mirates]. The Kiev center manager, Anna Petrenko, unexpectedly went on vacation on the morning of July 18th, from which she did not come back. In the film are numerous evidences, including a miraculously obtained interview with the first mate of the current Minister of Defense of Ukraine.

–-

NOTE from Eric Zuesse: The above account is consistent with previous news-reports that I have published about the shoot-down of this plane, such as one and two and three and four and five and six. (Especially see # “four” there.)

As the last two of these six links show, the Ukrainian Government controls the official ‘investigation’ of this shoot-down. Consequently, the official ‘investigation’ will contradict the one that has been presented in these reports, all of which are rooted in the single most reliable-and-clear piece of evidence on this airliner-shoot-down, the left fuselage panel right next to the pilot, where an enormous fusillade of bullets were fired opening a huge gash into the wall there, firing directly into the pilot. The origin of that explanation of this event was the retired German Lufthansa pilot, Peter Haisenko, whose July 30th article on the event has been the basis for all except the first of my own further investigations into it, simply because Haisenko’s was the first to be working off of the single most reliable and unchallengeable and clearest piece of evidence of all, which is even more powerful from a legal/forensic standpoint (which is my specialty) than everything that’s in the black boxes, and that’s perhaps even more persuasive than all of the other evidence put together. It’s more than a “smoking gun” here; it’s astounding proof, or, as Haisenko appropriately said in his headline, “Shocking.” It alone is proof beyond a reasonable doubt, this constituting the strictest of all legal standards of proof. After Haisenko’s article was published, this shoot-down case was, essentially, closed. And all of the reliable evidence that has been adduced since then has only added further details and clarifications to his reconstruction of the downing-event. However, the official ‘investigation’ will not be consistent with it (for the reasons that the last-listed of my linked articles explains). Nor will any ‘explanation’ that comes from any government or international organization that is supporting the Ukrainian Government in its war against Russia, serving there as NATO’s front line even before NATO officially admits Ukraine into NATO. In this proxy war against Russia, truth is cast aside, for what are deemed to be higher purposes.

———-

Investigative historian Eric Zuesse is the author, most recently, of They’re Not Even Close: The Democratic vs. Republican Economic Records, 1910-2010, and of  CHRIST’S VENTRILOQUISTS: The Event that Created Christianity.

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  • Christopher Brooks

    I am genuinely eager to see a properly constituted examination of the MH17 tragedy as any man and spent many months extracting the confession from Australian Foreign Affairs that a non-disclosure agreement had in fact been signed by the Australian Government.

    Eric Zuesse is not logical or cautious in the approach he applies to information.
    The certain declarations regarding MH17 photo information of fuselage damage around the cockpit zone are not much higher value than claiming a UFO sighting based on blurry smudges on a grainy photograph.
    This falsely confident headline approach to “news” is the classic method of a propagandist.

    The “bellingcat report” creates some uncomfortable questions for Russia to
    answer and it is clear the Russian propaganda machine is cleverly
    distracting and steering all the public consciousness it can influence, to
    hold enough Western sympathy to buy time.
    The propagandists can now be identified as all the alternative media and commentators who ignore the BUK evidence realities as if they do not exist.

    Putin has many critical issues to juggle. The MH17 tragedy is just one ingredient in a delicate cocktail.
    The
    problem Russia must contend, whatever MH17 facts emerge, is no truly
    objective judgement of all the historical, geopolitical and war
    realities will ever be genuinely contemplated by the West.
    Any
    informed observer should have some sympathy for the conflicting forces
    Putin’s Russia is negotiating and wrestling having the full knowledge
    that certain factions within Western politics are determined to engineer
    regime change at a minimum, military war if needed.
    Every step by Russia is made in a wartime moral frame which puts survival at a higher priority than truth. We must be realistic about Moscow and Washington propaganda complexities and methods of deception and misinformation.
    The big danger for Russia is that this strategy could implode their already flimsy hold on some Western understanding.
    Eventually developments will render the MH17 issue irrelevant to Russia’s immediate fate so time is of the essence in this game of perception chess.
    There is no way back for Putin beyond humiliation and surrender because the West has no interest in any other result.
    Putin needs some sorcery assistance to capture the available tolerance and trust of the western public and disarm the coup with a Houdini style escape from the credibility chains he has become tangled.
    The air is thick with the tension as we all watch with bated breadth to see how this political contortion proceeds.

    • Andrew Pate

      What a load of codswadle. You have not read this article, there is a very clear photo of the cockpit panel showing holes penetrating inwards and also outwards that a BUK cannot do unless there was 2 hits from each side of the plane. Also if a BUK had been fired from either side it would have left a vapour trail available for over 10 minutes after the firing which has never been reported or witnessed by anybody. So what Russia has to do with MH17 I certainly have no idea. It only a western fantasy of propaganda. Also Malaysia has been kept out of the tight 4 non disclosure agreement and are not invited to any evidence that they find. They also lost people on that plane and have as much right to the investigation as Australia and certainly more right than Brussels and Ukraine. This whole disgusting affair has been a US coverup since it was shot down and has no more concern for the loss of life of all the Why are you blaming Russia??

      • Christopher Brooks

        Andrew, I didn’t blame Russia above any other.
        I think the case is wide open until many questions are answered.
        I can view the cockpit damage like yourself but fail to draw any certain conclusions regarding exactly what caused the damage.
        The “case closed” polarizing attitude is not supported by the facts.
        I have to judge commentators who jump to invented certainties as
        faulty thinkers or mischief makers.
        Russia is undoubtedly being subjected to a storm of demonizing information from almost every direction but it would be gullible to not know that Russia is very capable of it’s own tricky business so all information needs to be calculated soberly and cautiously.
        The “bellingcat report” could be potentially contradicted in some aspects because the too obvious nature of the parading BUK do conjure suspicions that Russian enemies may have scripted the
        BUK evidence. It all needs to be scrutinized further before we can
        know what really happened. The BUK plume issue is valid but not a certain proof. The Spanish tweet “story” is fascinating and will not doubt give us important clues if we actually knew the hard facts. We don’t have hard facts. We have contradictions and bewildering as yet unexplained threads of information that may or may not turn out to be authentic when fully investigated. There are many more questions than answers in all the information and this is not reflected in the writing of Eric Zuesse.

        • Andrew Pate

          Hi Christopher I can see where you are coming from but how or where do we get an unbiased report on what happened when the West is not even showing their hand. Like their satellite photos or Radar data they must have as they were having military exercises at the time and the only Country that has put anything out there is Russia. We are only armchair watchers but we are not dumb enough to see that we are being conned by experts and so we do tend to form our own opinion which is why these forums are great for discussion. The Non Disclosure Agreement between the tight 4 tells me this investigation by these guys will be a massive coverup regardless and the truth will never be declared. But I hope I am wrong. I have it will be on the original report put out by the Dutch that really told us nothing. What we do know is it was not an accident and now the loss of 300 people is meaningless to families of the victims.

          • Christopher Brooks

            Andrew, what is essential is a proper method for achieving a truthful revelation.
            This method is not applied by the great majority.
            Consequently, debates are often conducted in a foolish polarized fashion that serve the Cyptocracy by fueling confusion and the futility of trying to work it all out.
            It is difficult to avoid the conclusion that a very great portion of the “alternative” media are just playing the naive in circles of confusion and frustration designed to poison and exhaust the legitimate and essential questioning of the schemes of power.
            Readers must be reminded to “keep their heads” instead of rushing to judgements. Eric Zuesse is rushing to conclusions that are not sound. The unthinking lemmings pile on to the various sensational “certain proof” stories that lead the mob from one headline to the next in a blind self destructive riot that achieves nothing positive but it does keep the “revolutionaries” busy in vicious conflict fighting over whose imagination is the most susceptible to silly suggestion.
            This is a type of fundamentalist behavior more akin to cults and witchcraft than sober reason and critical thinking.
            This phenomena is a type of sorcery invented and fueled by the privileged to make sure no genuine focused opposition becomes a threat.
            In the first instance, here and now, the false certainties of this article need to be challenged.
            We need an alternative media that is authentic and provides regular instruction on the correct method of truthful discovery and the importance of correct action as individuals by using our “vote” every day to advance truth and confront lies.

        • Linards Berzins

          Ok Christopher!/!? Describe the cockpit image in the detail similar to the detail you are describing your garbage you call argument.

          • Christopher Brooks

            The cockpit image has had “rock star” publicity and you can gaze upon it and draw your conclusions. Don’t rely on my judgement but do your own thinking about what you actually see as compared to what “Eric Zuesse” and others claim is proven by the image.
            Where are the clearly identifiable 30 mm puncture holes?
            They are not to be seen.
            Most of the damage is a smaller dimension and highly irregular.
            There is a large hole but I find it improbable to think that two aircraft traveling at high speed might possibly result in a concentrated damage point when all the physics are accounted.
            Alternatively, the bellingcat report includes evidence that does favor the proposition that a BUK launcher was touring about in a very suspicious time frame and Geo position.
            Maybe it was just a tourist with protection?
            Maybe it was a clever frame up?
            Maybe it was Russia taking risks in a critical moment
            of the Separatist conflict?
            Describing my logical questions as “garbage” says more about your nervous self conflict as you address the “suggestion” and “speculations” that a skilled propagandist like Zuesse fuels in his readers.
            Zuesse and his disciples just career onwards like a runaway train repeating the same speculations and declaring “certainty” when it is plainly not evidenced by the factual data.
            I don’t declare I have the certain explanation but the weight of information suggests Russia have deliberately constructed a propaganda storm to buy some time to better manage their very complex priorities in a climate of wartime reality.
            Russia probably had no choice but to try and rescue the crumbling Separatist civil war considering all the political realities.
            There are some puzzles regarding why the US has not produced damning data to condemn Russia if they were in fact sneaking a BUK launcher into Eastern Ukraine.
            I don’t claim my mind is closed to adjusting my judgement if evidence is produced to justify other realities.
            If anything I am strongly stating the BUK possibilities as a counter to the unbalanced cult certainties that alarm me because I see this as potentially magnifying the emotion of the poorly informed Western public which could be exploited by NATO and the US power cabals.
            After all the accidental shooting down of MH17 in a war zone where other parties might have to take some responsibility for all their decisions if they actually had data the BUK was being employed in such dangerous circumstances for commercial airline traffic.
            Can readers see my argument that this propaganda storm might in fact be disguising any focus on the genuine aspects of Ukraine and Nato/US complicity while laying an embarrassing trap for Russia which can continue to keep all the blame going in their direction as far as the limited perception and comprehension of the Western public.
            Could Russia not be aware of this dangerous path?
            Are they at a strategic mindset where time is the essence for their interest?
            I am just thinking through the possible scenarios and arriving at speculations that I never declare are certainties.
            Propaganda as a science has been almost perfected by all the powers about the globe as they manipulate our bias and emotions to act as foolish propaganda assistants if we are not very wary.
            There is a correct thinking method that protects us from falling victim to the mischief but it requires patience and acceptance that the method of the lie is clever cryptic traps designed to exhaust your effort before you get close to the truth.

          • Linards Berzins

            Nonsense.

            Watch this if you’re so bloody smart

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1QH03NtVQ0

          • Christopher Brooks

            Was there no point you agreed?
            Which particular statement would you rate highest on your nonsense dial?
            I will listen to the linked report when a translation comes available.
            Do you think this report is legal status evidence?
            A translation would need authenticating and scrutiny.
            If this material was aimed at Westerners the translation would have been automatic.

            Russia could have cleared it’s responsibility of MH17 very easily if it was completely innocent.
            The early youtube SBU voice intercept release was reported officially by Russian agencies to be “concocted” using “their” audio forensic expert.
            I contacted the Australian Russian Embassy and sought some opinion from an Australian legal industry audio forensic laboratory towards suggesting a multi continent audio forensic report that would settle the issue within a week or two for a cost of less than 50,000 Dollars.
            Russia did not take up the challenge.

          • Linards Berzins

            Legal is is new illegal. The video is logical, based on various independent international investigators and researchers. There is not just one right American way. The investigation was one sided and subjective. No evidence was taken from the field, in terms of cockpit littered with bullet holes, I could continue. So dont give me this BS, and say: “Oh I need a translation”, so bloody why you then say that it is not an evidence, if you cannot understand even what is going on in this film. You paradox yourself, bitch.

          • Christopher Brooks

            I suggest you read this Russian material that judges the claims that cockpit damage is cannon fire as low value.

            http://russia-insider.com/en/politics_ukraine/2014/12/02/03-26-52pm/mh_17_facts_and_cover-

            This is a clear shift in propaganda alignment.

            The Eric Zuesse cult has been abandoned.

            This article is a broad discussion that doesn’t give the “bellingcat report” a mention though BUK evidence is discussed.

          • Linards Berzins

            Seriously? you want me to believe in BUK theory, that is out of any rationally thinking human being. Your arguments are weak and regurgitating bollocks. Nothing to discuss with you. You don’t follow the logic. You’re a puppet. I suggest that someone translates the film for you, and then we can talk. What an absolute fool you are.

          • Christopher Brooks

            I doubt you can even convince yourself with your post.

            Did you even read the article?

            http://russia-insider.com/en/politics_ukraine/2014/12/02/03-26-52pm/mh_17_facts_and_cover-

          • Linards Berzins

            Yes, I have read regurgitated lies about that. You still are incredibly ignorant and stupid. So, learn russian, or ask someone to translate the video for you, and then come and talk to me, you baffoon.

      • Yuri Sonovobić

        As part of the deal, the Dutch are now being allowed to repatriate their 122 tons of gold from the Federal Reserve Bank of NY, which has been holding it since WW2.

    • Jon Kriet

      Christopher, the problem with Bellingcat (Eliot Higgins) is that it is quite obvious that he is being fed information and has let his ego over-ride any notion of objectivity. He and his “team” are so eager to demonstrate their skills of geolocation they do not question the fact that all their investigation is based on an announcement by the Ukrainian government and one suspect photo in Paris Match supposedly taken on the morning of July 17th but not released till almost a month laterand the censoring of his comments section and Twitter feed is well worthy of the Stasi era.

      • Christopher Brooks

        Jon, you may well be correct regarding the “bellingcat report”.
        The Higgins gang have all the regular associations that connect to the establishment narratives and cronyism but the information must be judged on it’s merits with open eyes and minds.
        The same intelligent cautious scrutiny must be applied to all the other information that might be gift wrapped bombs designed to blow up in your face leaving your reputation and spirit scared for life.
        The mischief maker exploits that tendency in human nature to allow enthusiasm and ego to overrule sensibility, memory and any information that contradicts the new “cult” narrative.
        When a suspiciously placed item of cockpit fuselage leaning against a pole is given bonus PR by the BBC and OSCE personnel and then declared “rolled gold” proof by “experts” that excite the imagination with questionable declarations and interpretations my experience leads me to handle this “package” with very great care.
        I agree it appears Ukraine and the US are possibly hiding their complicity in the MH17 tragedy because they have not been open with the data that could solve the events puzzles.
        There are many possible scenarios and motivations that I can contemplate that might be intersecting with honest discovery and exposure considering this tragedy happened in a war zone and the military powers are probing and bating each other to measure their comparative capabilities and vulnerabilities.
        As a citizen I am naturally concerned at the growing tensions which are magnified by allegations based on flimsy interpretations which should take the form of tenacious questions and support for an open transparent investigation.
        I believe both Russia and the Ukraine/US camps are toying with the investigation process which leads me to suspect they are all hiding their complicity in this tragic event.
        I communicated with the Russian Embassy in Australia and set out a strategy that could have rapidly cleared them of guilt and challenged Ukraine/US to level with the public but this approach was never effected so I knew Russia was not an honest broker of information either, and events are unraveling this reality, but those who refuse to think objectively might get blinded and swayed by the clever and sophisticated “cult” mentality that Eric Zuesse fuels.
        The propaganda patterns and methods are not really all that complicated and we have the recent experience of 911 “nutty conspiracy” poison that has totally derailed uncovering the truth behind the “Muslim conspiracy theory”. Further back we can draw on the strategies to drown the Kennedy assassination crime investigations by exciting faulty thinking, conflicts, misinformation and all the other tricks in the sorcerers book of spells.
        Perhaps the greatest tragedy we are dealing with is the absence of proper method for truthful revelation even among the growing minorities that are confronting the crimes of power.
        The energy of protest is being exhausted in futile faulty effort that suppresses a broader conscious awakening because the “revolution” is seeded with it’s own destruction.

        • whiteaglesoaring

          Motive, Means, and Opportunity are tried and true categories of evidence that investigators use to sift their evidence and rule in or rule out suspects. We aren’t provided access to the power of state to obtain evidence so we have to use what is available to be able to sort through the evidence and propaganda. Otherwise, the propagandists have a long head start on us. The criminals are playing for time.

          Both Kiev and the separatists could be said to have their own motives.

          Kiev has military aircraft capable of air-to-air attack, the militias don’t. Kiev has BUK 1 missiles capable of surface to air attack with personnel trained to utilize that system; militia might have captured a BUK-1 but didn’t have the time to train personnel to use them. If it can be proved that an air-to-air attack occurred, the separatists could not have achieved success without aircraft to do the job. Witnesses of military aircraft in the vicinity of MH17 and a lack of BUK-1 trail corroborate the Russian radar data and the “Spanish” air controller evidence buttressing the forensic evidence for means in favor of the separatists..

          Opportunity shows a much clearer case, however. Only Kiev could direct the MH17 toward Donetsk and only Kiev could direct the plane to a lower altitude. The separatists had NO opportunity to direct the flight path or the altitude.

          While keeping an open mind and thinking critically, we can at least form a working hypothesis for investigation, but more for political analysis and avoiding the propaganda drift stalling for time so most people forget or lose the thread of the investigation.

          • Christopher Brooks

            whiteaglersoaring, I think the “bellingcat report” must be considered in any discussion of the MH17 tragedy until such time as the proposition it supports is contradicted by other evidence.
            Why did you not include the Russian did it possibility?
            I don’t lean anywhere at this point.
            I just watch with fascination at the intensity of the propaganda now flowing from Russian sympathizers which does make me nervous because if Russia is exposed as directly guilty the global political impact would be very grave and cement the new cold war beyond any repair for decades.
            This predicted development would not be deserving compared to the relative crimes of others but the stormy scenery is already fixed.

          • cettel

            Re. your “contradicted by other evidence”:
            But it has been, and not only by that which Parry presented, which I just referred to.

          • whiteaglesoaring

            Chasing after the bellingcat report is pointless and a waste of time without considering the forensic evidence of means and opportunity. It would also have to prove that BUK-1 missiles do NOT have a highly visible exhaust that should have been noted by people on the ground. NADA.

            Bellingcat also flies in the face of the Haisenko report that makes BUK-1 irrelevant. How much irrelevance are you willing to stumble over in your investigations? That’s why real forensic investigators would consider the use of motive, means, and opportunity to winnow the evidence. Bellingcat is chaff.

            Russia ALSO did not have opportunity to change the flight path or the altitude of MH-17 so they could NOT have done it. Only Kiev was in charge of the flight path and attitude. Looking at MMO, simplifies. Throwing chaff into the discussion deflects from the investigation and the use of propaganda chaff is an anomaly that suggests complicity in the crime. We’ve already seen the chaff from Kiev, US, and the rest of NATO. The secret agreements Denmark has established and evading the inclusion of Malaysia into the “investigation” also suggests culpability. In fact, Australia has shown that they, too, are suspects in a coverup because they have agreed to collusion with one of the suspects, Kiev.

            Russia DOES have the means, but the lack of proof, or any kind of evidence but for the allegations of Kiev, places doubt on Russia actually doing it, especially because the US or Kiev have not provided the flight data as the Russians provided…or satellite evidence which would be available from the US. As in Sherlock Holmes, the dogs didn’t bark.

            At the moment it is USUKNATO that is cementing a new cold war beyond any repair and threatening hot war that could go terrible nuclear.

          • Christopher Brooks

            All the evidence needs to be considered on it’s merit.
            Many of the issues you reference are still very cloudy.
            Russia could easily have been MOTIVATED to assist the Separatists who were mercilessly bombed by Kiev.
            If you tune into the press conferences in Eastern Ukraine you would detect desperation and pleading in the tone of the Separatist leadership towards Russia.
            The absence of a BUK plume testimonial might be influenced by fear of reprisal and access to the communities.
            Radar “evidence” and satellite “pictures” are proving murky.
            Eyewitness accounts of aircraft in proximity to the MH17 are a bit problematic if you listen carefully.
            The more time elapses, the more contradictions emerge.
            The exact cause of the cockpit damage is not certain but is more consistent with a BUK than a machine gun attack but that is just sheer speculation.

          • whiteaglesoaring

            Christopher, motive, means, and opportunity are the most effective filters through which ALL the evidence is “considered”.

            My point about Russia’s motivation was NOT that there was none, but that it could be alleged to be almost anything the Kiev regime and the CIA could muster … and they’ve come up with some improbable doozies.

            Absence of BUK plume testimony is unlikely to be 100% suppressed by fear of reprisal because without saying anything a photo of a plume in the sky from anywhere in the vicinity would be enough proof. These days the technical capacity to photograph and transmit such images is nearly universal. NADA! “Dogs that didn’t bark.”

            Although radar data could be considered murky, the lack of radar data presented as real evidence in lieu of the poppycock drivel from Kiev is screaming “murder!” Since the Kiev air traffic control data was destroyed, this destruction of forensic evidence further incriminates the Kiev regime. The lack of US and NATO satellite “proof” is another “dog that didn’t bark.”

            Notably, you avoided dealing with the many opportunities for dogs to bark but didn’t, haven’t. The silence is, itself, evidence of culpability and criminal coverup. And YOUR silence about it is evidence of complicity.

            If the fuselage had a broad distribution of damage from shrapnel, you could perhaps get a foothold with the BUK surface-to-air missile meme. But that is not evident from the unclaimed trash left in the field in Donbas. It certainly does not fit the entry and exit holes from two sides or the bullet track across the wing. The bi-directional evidence confounds the surface-to-air meme. No, Christopher, the fuselage and cockpit damage is NOT consistent with the spherical burst from under the fuselage characteristic of surface-to-air missile detonation. As you well know, the Haisenko analysis is NOT sheer speculation. And the photo of a cockpit panel is not nearly as spurious as ANYTHING that will come from USUKNATO and Kiev who are now tied up in one criminal package as co-conspirators, CAUGHT in a conspiracy to conceal evidence. Anytime entities are caught in a conspiracy to conceal or destroy forensic evidence, they are as guilty as those who carry out the crime. BUSTED.

            And those who assist in the coverup are similarly guilty.

          • Christopher Brooks

            whiteaglesoaring, all your counter points are not unreasonable.

            I also agree the investigation is compromised.

            All the evidence cannot be judged with certainty until a proper legal process is applied.

            I agree Russia is against a tide of propaganda from factions in the Western power structures.

            I also know Russia is capable of lies and propaganda aimed at the Western mind but more importantly aimed at the home audience.

            Let’s just be hypothetical for a moment and consider the impact if very clear evidence emerged that a BUK from Russia was the weapon.

            I , like yourself, would know this possible reality would need to be judged with maturity, memory and full perspective.

            Hypothetically, if I was a western strategist, I might even engineer a trap to maximize the culpability of Russia to achieve a home and Moscow street impact to advance my plans.

            I might even call on some propaganda assistants to help tangle Putin in deeper lies and perceived guilt than any objective reality deserves.

            This is just one possible scenario that might or might not be eventually supported by the facts whenever they do emerge.

            I keep a very open mind on the information, I am firm on my expectations of a proper accountable legal process.

          • whiteaglesoaring

            Christopher, an open mind can remain functional only if chaff can be set aside as spurious. One of the tricks of propaganda is overload of spurious information that clouds or sidetracks the investigation. It takes energy and focus away from a fruitful investigation. In fact, your insistence that bellingcat be considered WOULD take energy and focus away from getting the job done. That’s why MMO is so important to forensic investigation.

            A “proper legal process” is already compromised by permitting one of the possible suspects be involved in the investigation and capable of forcing the other principals into a cover up. There is now NO possibility to expect “proper accountable legal process.” It’s bad enough that NATO countries are involved in the investigation, but to have the blatantly lying #1 suspect in a position to misdirect or cover up evidence is to have already begun the misdirection and coverup. We’ve had just a sample of that from the preliminary report. The cover up isn’t merely a future possibility; the cover up has already begun as soon as the black boxes and human remains were turned over to the Dutch. “Maturity, memory and full perspective” would already have revealed that to you.

            I applaud your efforts to document the compromising of the investigation through your contacts in Australian government, but that was already becoming obvious because of Malaysia’s public concerns. The criminal element of the planet might have just discounted those of us who are amateurs on the outside of the “professional” investigation and prided themselves in their ability to allow a “secret” to be made public in order to support the credibility of the obfuscators and distractors … perhaps like you.

          • Christopher Brooks

            When the “bellingcat report” has been demonstrated to be “chaff” and “spurious” it can be “set aside”.

            Until then it is part of the information that makes up the evidence for working out what actually happened and who are the responsible parties.

          • whiteaglesoaring

            Don’t you worry, Christopher, the bellingcat report is useful evidence – for identifying the parties responsible for MH-17 coverup – unless you can prove BUK shrapnel can be bi-directional making rounded holes instead of slashes and that the BUK missiles can be launched sans billows of exhaust. In fact, bellingcat is a powerful way to bell the cat – anyone who promotes wasting time on bellingcat is a cat that has been belled. We can be warned that the propaganda cat is playing for time.

          • Christopher Brooks

            If the “bellingcat report” did turn out to be contrived material then I would agree it would still be useful in understanding the plot. The coverup of a state incident often needs lots of compromised assistants.

          • whiteaglesoaring

            You might as well be playing with nursery rhymes as doing an investigation without a Clue. You want to watch the butler in the kitchen with the butcher knife and Colonel Mustard in the library with a wrench when the body has bullet holes.

            Hey diddle diddle
            BellingCat and go fiddle,
            The BUK jumped over the moon.
            The Kiev dog laughed,
            To see such sport,.
            CIA ran away with the Spoon.

          • Christopher Brooks

            There is definitely talent in evidence.
            It’s not in critical thinking.
            The bullet holes are only conjecture and interpretation.
            A great number of viewers of the body disagree with you.
            You can choose to not take that into account but that
            is not wise.
            You might ask yourself what am I missing in this equation.
            You could of course turn out to be correct but it is possible
            your bias is effecting your judgement.
            We can all get caught out if we are not cautious.

          • whiteaglesoaring

            Critical thinking would entail looking at the evidence on the ground that distinguishes BUK surface-to-air missile damage from cannon and machine gun fire. SAM detonate below the fuselage, sending a hail of shrapnel into the underbelly of the plane…that isn’t the pattern seen on the MH-17. Ordinance was targeted at the pilot and co-pilot from left rear and right rear so that traces across one of the wings show a focused targeting instead of a cloud of shrapnel as is characteristic of a SAM.

            http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/1188/5617/original.jpg?w=800&h

            The lack of exhaust plume fits cannon fire and machine guns as the murder weapons. So the butler couldn’t have done it and Colonel Mustard had the wrong weapon. It was 2 or more Kiev Air Force Su-khoi in a flank attack.with 30 mm cannon + machine gun. East Ukrainian separatists had no means to fly Sukhoi to attack the MH-17. Kiev as a legitimate suspect is confirmed. Separatists are ruled out.

            BellingCat report is full of conjecture since there is no credible evidence to show that BUK-1 surface-to-air missiles were the murder weapon. Therefore BellingCat is irrelevant chaff with which you can choose to waste your own time, not mine. You are irrelevant because you play mind games with chaff to confuse the investigation.. Clearly YOUR bias is affecting your judgment. We can indeed get caught out if we are not cautious, and the proper investigation uses motive, means, and opportunity to winnow the useful evidence from the chaff to keep the investigation from getting side-tracked. Your efforts to divert the investigation into oblivion are noted.

            Besides, only the Jewish/Nazi collaboration government had access to Air Traffic Control to direct the flight path over Ukraine territory. Even without ruling out the BUK-1, the separatists are ruled out because they don’t have the opportunity to redirect the flight path or altitude. Kiev is the prime suspect.

            Based on means and opportunity the east Ukraine separatists are ruled out and Kiev stands alone as the prime suspect. It’s standard forensic logic, Christopher. That’s what you are missing in this equation. Refusing to acknowledge that makes you either ignorant of fundamental forensics or complicit in the coverup.

          • RedBaron9495

            lol ..Elliott Higgins was an unemployed phoney…a lot of of his previous work has been already debunked.

          • Christopher Brooks

            A simplistic character attack is cheap and lazy.

            The revealing thing for me is how no substantial interrogation or refutation of the bellingcat material has emerged.

            I agree it could be argued that Elliott Higgins is a compromised source of information when his history is considered but any critical thinker must admit that his “social media forensics” cannot be ignored.

            I think he is probably strong on the technical aspects of his work but the integrity might drop when political interpretation comes into the equation.

            It is likely he might ignore possible alternative explanations for the social media data that contradict the US/CIA narrative.

            The material must still be given due consideration equal to all other evidence.

          • cettel

            all good points, and well made

    • cettel

      Re. your “The certain declarations regarding MH17 photo information of fuselage damage around the cockpit zone are not much higher value than claiming a UFO sighting based on blurry smudges on a grainy photograph.”:

      That is exactly the opposite of the truth, which is:

      (1) The photos are of shockingly high resolution, if you will track back to those photos, which are clickable at my original articles (and all of my articles click back to them). They’re nothing like “blurry smudges on a grainy photograph.” They are the exact opposite of that.

      (2) What they clearly prove is a fusillade of bullets fired right into the pilot’s stomach-area. No matter what might happen to be shown on purported radar images, or in purported black-box data, this side-panel is conclusive: bullets killed the pilot. There is no question about that (except among irrational people).

      (3) Provenance of this piece of evidence is impeccable, such that no question exists as to whether it was tampered with. These photos were taken immediately after the event. There is only one pilot-window side-panel, and it’s clearly this, and it’s from that plane, and the authenticity of this item of evidence can’t reasonably be questioned. Instead, it’s simply being ignored by the West, which is the people who are giving the Ukrainian Government veto-power over the final report.

      Fortunately, this piece of evidence survived, and fortunately it was sharply photographed immediately.

      No matter what other evidence might exist, it won’t be nearly as indisputably authentic, nor as indisputably untampered-with, nor as indisputably clear as to what it shows.

      Only highly irrational people can even question whether at least one fighter-jet fired bullets into the pilot of this plane.

      As for the holes there that open out into the opposite direction, they suggest a second fighter-jet but don’t prove it. Alternative explanations are possible for that.

      But clearly at least one fighter-jet was involved in bringing down this airliner.

      • Christopher Brooks

        Eric, I disagree with the certainty of your conclusions.

        My “flying saucer” analogy was clearly not literal.

        I can look at the photo of the cockpit but I would never
        judge it as certain proof that the highly random damage
        was a result of 30 mm cannon fire.

        The “bellingcat report” needs full scrutiny before
        it can be judged but it is worthy information.

        We have many questions that need answers before
        any firm allegations could reasonably be justified.

        The motion physics involved in two fast moving objects with a fixed weapon targeting any point stretches my plausibility meter.

        I don’t pretend to know for certain.

        I believe your premature sensationalist conclusions surrounding the cockpit damage are counter to objective critical thinking.

        I agree everything should be questioned but that is a different matter entirely to declaring you know something as a fact.

        Despite 13 years of controversies swirling around the alternative media since the 911 event the exposure of the “muslim conspiracy theory” has yet to be achieved despite facts that make it a fraudulent theory.
        Unfortunately, the so called “truth” movement has promoted a string of improbable theories, based on flimsy or no evidence, over the hijacker back story that verges on the ridiculous when examined.

        Richard Gage and the A&E group demonstrate many symptoms of fundamentalist cult behavior diverting energy away from the documented evidence that exposes the hijacker fakes and the various agencies involved in constructing the back story.

        I don’t suggest questions should not be investigated regarding the causes of the building collapsing as they did but like the holes in the MH17 fuselage, I don’t see the “flying saucer” with the clarity and certainty others loudly proclaim.

        Why focus on the weaker evidence and ignore the strong?

        This is a very important question to contemplate.

        What I do know is that very shifty and clever forces are unlimited in their resources to manage and negotiate our reality constructing a spectrum of flavors of political attitude to ferment conflict and confusion which leaves many looking silly and feeling deflated and helpless when their pet cult is exploded in their face.

        We can avoid all this self destruction with a better thinking method.

        • cettel

          You clearly ignore my evidence and analysis. You didn’t click on the links I provided, especially “one” through “six” and not even on the most thorough which is #4. For example, this (linked to in each one of them) is one of Haisenko’s photo-images
          http://www.anderweltonline.com/fileadmin/user_upload/PDF/Cockpit-MH017.pdf
          and you clearly did not read my analysis of it, which confirms in detail Hausenko’s.
          Instead, you rely on discredited ‘evidence,’ but you don’t care that it has been exposed as being misattributed photos. See, for example, Robert Parry’s article “What Did US Spy Satellites See in Ukraine?”
          You believe what you want to believe, not what clear and convincing evidence, which has never been discredited, proves.
          There is no argument between us, because you have no case other than faith in frauds, which, moreover, even if they weren’t outright frauds, are not convincingly relevant to this exact incident. That ‘case’ is designed for suckers. It is intended to be taken on faith. The case that I present is not. And this is the reason why the West has given the Ukrainian Government veto-power over whatever the official ‘investigation’ will ‘find.’ But you won’t see that; you won’t even question their motive for doing that. Faith like this is impossible to dislodge. This is how liars and deceivers succeed. They couldn’t succeed except on the basis of their appeal to people of faith — in them.

          • Christopher Brooks

            Eric, I am familiar with all the information and have read all the articles and in none of them do I find the certainty you declare.
            Robert Parry is an interesting source of “anonymous” information that has adjusted over time with regard to MH17 so readers would have noticed this and recognized that this source has some complexities and flaws.
            You are muddying the waters by mixing the “US spy satellite”
            material with the open source “belliingcat report” material.
            Why would you choose to do that?
            Eric you accuse me of employing “faith” when in fact that is the very basis of your leap to conclusions which no rational judicial thinker should seduced by unless they wish to join a cult that bases it’s beliefs on another mans dogmatic pronouncements.
            I remain open minded and alert to all the mischievous propaganda that dresses itself up as “sensationalist” new evidence leading the gullible on a merry dance to futility and helplessness.
            My advice to readers is to just take a breath or two, be calm and patient and think very carefully how you might be manipulated into not thinking for yourself.
            I am most definitely not anti Russian.
            I am painfully aware of all the dangers wrapped up in the MH17 politics and how important it is we get to the truth quickly and keep the whole event in it’s proper perspective.
            I cannot judge the motivations of agents and agencies that leap to imaginative conclusions instead of a more sober analytical approach but I will point out the dangers of this activity and remind those who care that this has all been seen again and again and again.
            We just don’t seem to learn and fall for all the same device over and over again.

          • whiteaglesoaring

            Not intelligent enough to AI, but stilted enough to mimic R2D2

          • Christopher Brooks

            Should I adjust the intelligence setting and switch on the Shakespeare option?
            Have some sympathy, for this model isn’t the fully optioned
            fresh out of factory latest technology.
            Fortunately early versions, due to long experience, have low sensitivity to performance criticism.

  • Danny Durham

    Ok Christopher Brooks

    Well ….. you name sound English but your English is terrible. Are you an AI bot? It sound as if you have used a translator…..

    If you are waiting for the official report, how can you be sure that it will be the truth? You will never know the truth if you follow your own argument.

    • Christopher Brooks

      Danny, I agree the official investigation is corrupted and flawed but never before has an investigation like this been put under such public scrutiny.

      I am not advocating concerned citizens should not be encouraged to engage in the Mh17 investigation and there is no law against inventing theories and running away with our imagination towards illogical or outright ridiculous conclusions similar to the “no plane” cult that certain interests created and seeded among the 911 truth research communities.
      How should we respond to faulty logic and unreasonable assumptions?
      I believe they must be challenged and discussed so we might better understand the strategies, motivations and pedigree of this type of mischief.
      If you are serious enough to bother engaging in the investigation conversation I believe you must not hesitate to neutralize the negative effects of “fundamentalist” thinking that is narrow and rests on “high priests” and their “sacred interpretations” that only “heretics” question.
      Eric Zuesse is a “fundamentalist”, not a cautious judicial critical thinker.

      • Danny Durham

        LOL …. I am seriuosly starting to think you are an AI Bot ….. you know … those that write scientific papers, which sound intelligent, peppered by some terms relevant to the topic, which are then accepted by Peer Reviewed Publications and then turn out to be just garbage …. :)

        I wonder if this an experiment run by a troll ….

        • Christopher Brooks

          Danny, perhaps your observation reflects the shocking contrast between the correct scientific method of argument when compared to the regular loose, emotion drenched and highly speculative propaganda style that too many have come to tolerate and follow without challenge.
          Why would anyone waste their time writing and reading on the alternative media if the purpose was not to treat information and it’s sources with the same precision and discipline that any scientist or engineer would practice.
          We know the theory and equations that are relevant to constituted thinking and we also have plenty of historical discovery to draw upon to keep us alert to the mischievous methods of propaganda deception.
          If we focus on building solidly factual foundations with a correct thinking method we can be confident our time is employed with purpose instead of the casual herd mentality evident on many alternative media platforms that produce a style of political porn that might satisfy and serve some readers but in my estimation the trend is away from instinctive individual intelligence renewal.
          The Eric Zuesse episode is typical of employing repetition, confident “expert” declarations and mystifying swarms of psychological reinforcement on comment forums to generate a “factual claim” out of speculation.
          This is cleverly mixed and churned by other suspicious players of information that connect tenuous slithers of technical argument and obscure but appropriately titled seductive support to build the “cult”. Next the legions can be read screaming abuse at the “heretics” who ask legitimate questions or simply state they are not convinced
          of the dogma.
          This pattern has infested genuine political debate.
          What end might it be serving?
          It almost guarantees the crimes of power can be contained from broad discovery by drenching the very act of independent thinking in smelly poisonous controversies that no sane person would approach.
          Because the internet now allows all truth to be published the Cryptocracy have perfected how to make the truth invisible though it has never been so easily accessible in any technical sense.
          The very legions of “activists” who exhaust their emotional and time resources have been cleverly conscripted by the devious schemes of power to hide the very thing they believe they are exposing.
          The ISIS fanatic in Iraq has some similar characteristics.
          Real injustice and muddled logic is exploited to destroy genuine Muslim national progress.

  • Danny Durham

    To all the fools that are still replying to Christopher Brooks ….

    You do know you are arguing with an artificial intelligent robot ……? This is not a person but computer generated arguments …..

    • Yuri Sonovobić

      I think you’re right Danny. It talks WAY too much and deliberately so. That way the thread is filled with verbose garbage, causing the average reader to lose interest and go elsewhere. That’s how much they really want to bury this story. Let’s not forget that less than 20 minutes after MH17 was shot down, the Massacre of Gaza began …

      Hey there Brooks… you wouldn’t be one of the Chosen would you?

      • Christopher Brooks

        Danny and Yuri, you might be surprised at how similar my sentiment is to that held by yourselves.
        Sentiment is not proof.
        It would be expedient if the case was clear cut but it isn’t.
        I have spent months lobbying journalists and political desks across Australia which did eventually yield the statement from Australian Foreign affairs that confessed a classified non disclosure agreement had been signed by Australia.
        This document has given some assistance to exposing the compromised investigation process.
        I will continue challenging faulty process, faulty thinking and faulty claims that all contribute to a catastrophe of lies.
        These lies cost lives in the millions on all sides of the conflicts.
        How many lives might have been saved if all the false 911 conspiracy tales had not destroyed the solid hijacker fraud material from gaining some broad attention?
        The MSM have had a regular diet of talking heads from 911 truth that fixated on the “controlled demolition” and “Pentagon Missiles” while a string of Arab countries have been attacked based on a fraudulent “Muslim conspiracy theory”.
        Russian and all Ukrainian people need the truth, whatever it is, to give them a chance to still be alive at the end of the next decade.
        Let’s find the truth.
        Deciding you already know things you do not is faulty thinking.

        • steve

          Christopher Brooks sat on a wall.
          The USSR had a great fall.
          All the US forces and all the Ukraine men couldn’t put this story together again.

    • RedBaron9495

      Maybe he’s an Elliott Higgins alt account….he seems awfully keen to mention Bellingcat’s credibility.
      Higgins is not a forensic scientist nor qualified to make a legitimate theory as to how MH17 was shot down.
      He does however fit the West’s narrative….so the MSM seem keen to trot him out as some sort of authority.

      • HKW

        Elliot Higgins aka Brown Moses, stay at home dad and a blogger all of a sudden became an expert in weapons. Can anyone explain to me how did he manage that?
        BULLSHIT !!

        This propaganda is to brainwash the public into believing that Putin gave the order.
        The MSM agenda is to demonize Putin and Russia, and slowly prepare the public for the war justifying its sanction.

        They want WAR to depopulate the world !

        Wake up people and switch on your brains to think!!

  • syncher

    interesting

    • Christopher Brooks

      These comment times display some type of corruption here!

      • Linards Berzins

        Bollocks!

        • Christopher Brooks

          syncher appears to comment “interesting” to whiteaglesoaring 21 hours before he wrote the post.

          syncher’s comment clearly responded to another post.

          The corruption may well be in the comment code but it is very certainly not ……. “Bollocks”

          • Linards Berzins

            This is bloody amazing, I’m having my first conversation with Artificial Intelligence! Hope I will be able to use my IP some time. You have a great…. eeeehmmm.. …. reboot?

  • whiteaglesoaring

    Soon after the Mh17 was shot down, British news outlets began floating the story –
    without evidence, that MH17 was diverted to “avoid thunderstorms in
    southern Ukraine”. This was also placed on Wikipedia at the same time. Nico Voorbach, who is Dutch, is president of the European Cockpit Association, and was the man used to nudge out this talking point. Voorbach casually slid this crucial fabrication out there, telling The Guardian, “I heard that MH17 was diverting from some showers as there were thunderclouds”.

    The only problem is that Malaysian Airlines immediately refuted this in a report from Malaysia News: “MAS operations director Captain Izham Ismail
    has also refuted claims that heavy weather led to MH17 changing its
    flight plan. “There were no reports from the pilot to suggest that
    this was the case,” he said.

    The record of past flights on FlightRadar and FlightAware were changed between July 24-25th, the new “old flights” were placed over the Donetsk People’s Republic instead of the flights going further south. This does not jibe with what was reported by researcher Vagelis Karmiros using data from flight-tracking website Flightaware and published on a number established sites like Zero Hedge.

    These two incidents alone confirm conspiracy in addition to the secret agreement of the Dutch, Belgium, Australia, and Ukraine to quash any evidence deemed incriminating in the investigation that in violation of protocol, keeps Malaysia on the sidelines.

  • Opin

    When will Abbott, & his Jew world order MSM appologise publically to Putin? For without any evidence, blatently saying it was Russia, like Asshole war criminal before him, Howard WMD? these assholes pander to Rothschild Zionist Israeli terrorists, they will have their time in jail soon!