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Noam Chomsky στη μαριχουάνα
Δευτέρα, 2η Ιουνίου 2008
ΥΨΗΛΟΙ ΧΡΟΝΟΙ: Έχετε καθορίσει τον πόλεμο στα φάρμακα ως όργανο του ελέγχου πληθυσμών. Πώς ολοκληρώνει αυτόν; NOAM CHOMSKY: Ο έλεγχος πληθυσμού είναι πραγματικά ένας όρος που δανείστηκα από τη λογοτεχνία αντιεξέγερσης των ετών Kennedy. Οι κύριοι στόχοι ήταν τότε Νοτιοανατολική Ασία και Λατινική Αμερική, όπου υπεάρξε ένα φοβερό δημοφιλές ένζυμο μερών. Αναγνώρισαν ότι ο πληθυσμός υποστήριζε τις δημοφιλείς δυνάμεις που απαιτούσαν όλα είδος κοινωνικής αλλαγής που οι Ηνωμένες Πολιτείες δεν θα μπορούσαν απλά να ανεχτούν. Και θα μπορούσατε να ελέγξετε τους ανθρώπους με διάφορους τρόπους. Μονόδρομος ήταν ακριβώς από τον τρόμο και τη βία, napalm βομβαρδισμός et ainsi de suite και τα λοιπά, αλλά ελειτούργησαν επίσης στην ανάπτυξη άλλων ειδών μέτρων πληθυσμός-ελέγχου για να κρατηθούν οι άνθρωποι υποταγμένοι, κυμαινόμενος από την προπαγάνδα ως τα στρατόπεδα συγκέντρωσης. Η προπαγάνδα είναι αποτελεσματικότερη όταν συνδυάζεται με τον τρόμο. Έχετε το ίδιο πρόβλημα εσωτερικά, όπου το κοινό παίρνει συνεχώς εκτός ελέγχου. Πρέπει να λάβετε τα μέτρα για να ασφαλίσετε ότι παραμένουν παθητικοί και απαθείς και υπάκουοι, και δεν παρεμποδίζετε το προνόμιο και τη δύναμη. Είναι ένα σημαντικό θέμα της σύγχρονης δημοκρατίας. Δεδομένου ότι οι μηχανισμοί της δημοκρατίας επεκτείνονται, όπως το enfranchisement και την αύξηση, η ανάγκη να ελεγχθούν οι άνθρωποι με άλλα μέσα αυξάνεται. Έτσι η αύξηση της εταιρικής προπαγάνδας στις Ηνωμένες Πολιτείες παραλληλίζει λίγο πολύ αύξηση της δημοκρατίας, για αρκετά απλούς λόγους. Δεν είναι οποιοδήποτε είδος μυστικού. Συζητείται πολύ ειλικρινά και ανοιχτά στην επιχειρησιακή λογοτεχνία και τα ακαδημαϊκά περιοδικά κοινωνιολογίας. You have to “fight the everlasting battle for the minds of men,” in their standard phraseology, to indoctrinate and regiment them in the way that armies regiment their bodies. Those are population-control measures. This engineering or manufacture of consent is the essence of democracy, because you have to insure that ignorant and meddlesome outsiders - meaning, we, the people - don’t interfere with the work of the serious people who run public affairs in the interests of the privileged. HIGH TIMES: How does the War on Drugs fit into this? NOAM CHOMSKY: Well, one of the traditional and obvious ways of controlling people in every society, whether it’s a military dictatorship or a democracy, is to frighten them. If people are frightened, they’ll be willing to cede authority to their superiors who will protect them: “OK, I’ll let you run my life in order to protect me,” that sort of reasoning. So the fear of drugs and fear of crime is very much stimulated by state and business propaganda. The National Justice Commission repeatedly points out that crime in the United States, while sort of high, is not off the spectrum for industrial societies. On the other hand, fear of crime is far beyond other societies, and mostly stimulated by various forms of propaganda. The Drug War is an effort to stimulate fear of dangerous people from whom we have to protect ourselves. It is also a direct form of control of what are called the “dangerous classes,” those superfluous people who don’t really have a function contributing to profit-making and wealth. They have to be somehow taken care of. HIGH TIMES: In some other countries you just hang the rabble. NOAM CHOMSKY: Yes, but in the U.S. you don’t kill them, you put them in jail. The economic policies of the 1980s sharply increased inequality, concentrating such economic growth as there was, which was not enormous, in very few hands. The top few percent of the population got extremely wealthy as profits went through the roof, and meanwhile median-income wages were stagnating or declining. People have to work harder, and public support systems for poor and hungry people have been declining sharply ever since the ’70s. You’re getting a large mass of people who are insecure, suffering from difficulty or misery, or something in between. A lot of them basically are going to be arrested, because you have to control them. The Drug War is used for that purpose. It very explicitly targets young black males. When the War on Drugs was re-declared in the late ’80s, Senator Patrick Moynihan (D-NY) pointed out that if you just look at social statistics, you can see that we are calling for a war against poor minorities, black males basically. HIGH TIMES: It’s obviously true, but how do you prove it? NOAM CHOMSKY: Just by looking at the trend lines for marijuana. Marijuana use was peaking in the late ’70s, but there was not much criminalization. You didn’t go to jail for life for having marijuana then because the people using it were nice folks like us, the children of the rich. You don’t throw them into jail any more than you throw corporate executives in jail - even though corporate crime is far more costly and dangerous than street crime. But then in the ’80s the use of various “unhealthy” substances started to decline among more educated sectors: marijuana and tobacco smoking, alcohol, red meat, coffee, this whole category of stuff. On the other hand, usage remained steady among poorer sectors of the population. In the United States, poor and black correlate - they’re not identical, but there’s a correlation - and in poor, black and Hispanic sectors of the population the use of such substances remained pretty steady. So take a look at those trend lines. When you call for a War on Drugs, you know exactly who you are going to pick up: poor black people. You’re not going to pick up rich white people; you don’t go after them anyway. In the upper-middle-class suburb where I live, if somebody goes home and sniffs some cocaine the police don’t break into their house. So there are many factors making the Drug War a war against the poor, largely poor people of color. And those are the people they have to get rid of. During the period these economic policies were being instituted, the incarceration rate was shooting up, but crime wasn’t, it was steady or declining. But imprisonment went way up. By the late ’80s, in terms of imprisoning our population, we were way ahead of the rest of the world, way ahead of any other industrial society. HIGH TIMES: Who benefits from incarcerating young black males? NOAM CHOMSKY: A lot of people. Poor people are basically superfluous for wealth production, and therefore the wealthy want to get rid of them. The rich also frighten everyone else, because if you’re afraid of these people, then you submit to state authority. But beyond that, it’s a state industry. Since the 1930s, every businessman has understood that a private capitalist economy must have massive state subsidies; the only question is what form that state subsidy will take. In the United States the main form has been through the military system. The most dynamic aspects of the economy - computers, the Internet, the aeronautical industry, pharmaceuticals - have fed off the military system. But the crime-control industry, as it’s called by criminologists, is becoming the fastest-growing industry in America. And it’s a state industry, publicly funded. It’s the construction industry, the real-estate industry, and also high-tech firms. It’s gotten to a scale sufficient that high-technology and military contractors are looking to it as a market for techniques of high-tech control and surveillance, so you can monitor what people do in their private activities with complicated electronic devices and supercomputers: monitoring their telephone calls and urinalyses and so forth. In fact, the time will probably come when this superfluous population can be locked up in private apartments, not jails, and just monitored to track when they do the wrong thing, say the wrong thing, go the wrong direction. HIGH TIMES: House arrest for the masses. It’s enough of an industry so that the major defense-industry firms are interested; you can read about it in The Wall Street Journal. The big law firms and investment houses are interested: Merrill Lynch is floating big loans for prison construction. If you take the whole system, it’s probably approaching the scale of the Pentagon. Also, this is a terrific workforce. We hear a fuss about prison labor in China, but prison labor is standard here. It’s very cheap, it doesn’t organize, the workers don’t ask for rights, you don’t have to worry about health benefits because the public is paying for everything. It’s what’s called a “flexible” workforce, the kind of thing economists like; you have the workers when you want them, and you throw them out when you don’t want them. And what’s more, it’s an old American tradition. There was a big industrial revolution in parts of the South in the early part of this century, in northern Georgia and Kentucky and Alabama, and it was based mostly around prison labor. The slaves had been technically freed, but after a few years they were basically slaves again. One way of controlling them was to throw them in jail, where they became a controlled labor force. That’s the core of the modern industrial revolution in the South, which continued in Georgia to the 1920s and to the Second World War in places like Mississippi. (It should be noted that when “involuntary servitude” was abolished, the only exception was criminals convicted of crimes. WFI Editor) Now it’s being revived. In Oregon and California there’s a fairly substantial textile industry in the prisons, with exports to Asia. At the very time people were complaining about prison labor in China, California and Oregon are exporting prison-made textiles to China. They even have a line called, “Prison Blues.” And it goes all the way up to advanced technology like data processing. In the state of Washington, Boeing workers are protesting the export of jobs to China, but they’re probably unaware that their jobs are being exported to nearby prisons, where machinists are doing work for Boeing under circumstances that the management is delighted over, for obvious reasons. HIGH TIMES: And most of these prisoners are now nonviolent drug offenders. NOAM CHOMSKY: The enormous rate of growth of the prison population has been mostly drug-related. The last figures I saw showed that over half the federal prison population, and maybe a quarter in state prisons, are drug offenders. In New York State, for example, a twenty-dollar street sale or possession of an ounce of cocaine will get you the same sentence as arson with intent to murder. The three-strikes legislation is going to blow it right through the sky. The third arrest can be for some minor drug offense, and you’ll go to jail forever. (Another side effect of the three-strikes laws has been a dramatic increase in the number of high-speed police car chases, and car-chase-related car accidents. Knowing that they are up against a life sentence, even petty criminals try to escape now, instead of surrendering. WFI Editor) HIGH TIMES: The Drug Czar’s office estimates that Americans spend $57 billion annually on illegal drugs. What effect does this have on the global economy? NOAM CHOMSKY: Well, the United Nations tries to monitor the international drug trade, and their estimates are on the order of $400 to $500 billion - half a trillion dollars a year - in trade alone, which makes it higher than oil, something like 10 percent of world trade. Where this money goes to is mostly unknown, but general estimates are that maybe 60 % of it passes through U.S. banks. After that, a lot goes to offshore tax havens. It’s so obscure that nobody monitors it, and nobody wants to. But the Commerce Department every year publishes figures on foreign direct investment, where U.S. investment is going, and through the ’90s the big excitement has been the “new emerging markets” like Latin America. And it turns out that a quarter of U.S. foreign direct investment is going to Bermuda, another 15% to the Bahamas and Cayman Islands, another 10% to Panama, and so on. Now, they’re not building steel factories. The most benign interpretation is that it’s just tax havens. And the less benign interpretation is that it’s one way of passing illegal money into places where it will not be monitored. We really don’t know, because it is not investigated. This is not the task of the Justice Department, which is to go after a black kid in the ghetto who has a joint in his pocket. HIGH TIMES: What do you think of the U.S. policy of offering trade and aid favors to countries who promulgate so-called anti-drug initiatives? NOAM CHOMSKY: Actually, U.S. programs radically increase the use of drugs. Look at the big growth in cocaine production that has exploded in the Andes over the last few years, in Colombia and Peru and Bolivia. Why are Bolivian peasants, for instance, producing coca? The neo-liberal structural adjustment policies of the World Bank and International Monetary Fund, which are run by the U.S., try to drive peasants into agro-export, producing not for local consumption but for sale abroad. They want to reduce social programs, like spending for health and education, cutting government deficits by increasing exports. And they cut back tariffs so that we can then pour our own highly subsidized food exports into their countries, which of course, undercuts peasant production. Put all that together and what do you get? You get a huge increase in Bolivian coca production, as their only comparative advantage. The same is true in Colombia, where U.S. “food for peace” aid, as it is called, was used to undercut or destroy wheat production by essentially giving food - at what amounts to U.S. taxpayer expense - through U.S. agro-exporters to undercut wheat production there, which later cut coffee production and their ability to set prices in any reasonable fashion. And the end result is they turn to something else, and one of the things they turn to is coca production. In fact, if you look at the total effect of U.S. policies, it has been to increase drugs. HIGH TIMES: Well, anybody who looks into the history of American drug policies in this century… NOAM CHOMSKY: I’m putting aside another factor altogether, namely clandestine warfare. If you look into the history of what is called the CIA, which means the U.S. White House, its secret wars, clandestine warfare, the trail of drug production just follows. It started in France after the Second World War when the United States was essentially trying to re-institute the traditional social order, to rehabilitate Fascist collaborators, wipe out the Resistance and destroy the unions and so on. The first thing they did was re-constitute the Mafia, as strikebreakers or for other such useful services. And the Mafia doesn’t do it for fun, so there was a tradeoff: Essentially, they allowed them to re-institute the heroin-production system, which had been destroyed by the Fascists. The Fascists tended to run a pretty tight ship: They didn’t want any competition, so they wiped out the Mafia. But the U.S. re-constituted it, first in southern Italy, and then in southern France with the Corsican Mafia. That’s where the famous French Connection comes from. That was the main heroin center for many years. Then U.S. terrorist activities shifted over to Southeast Asia. If you want to carry out terrorist activities, you need local people to do it for you, and you also need secret money to pay for it, clandestine hidden money. Well, if you need to hire thugs and murderers with secret money, there aren’t many options. One of them is the drug connection. The so-called Golden Triangle around Burma, Laos and Thailand became a big drug-producing area with the help of the United States, as part of the secret wars against those populations. In Central America, it was partly exposed in the Contra hearings, though it was mostly suppressed. But there’s no question that the Reagan administration’s terrorist operations in Central America were closely connected with drug trafficking. Afghanistan became one of the biggest centers of drug trafficking in the world in the 1980s, because that was the payoff for the forces to which the U.S. was contributing millions of dollars: the same extreme Islamic fundamentalists who are now tearing the country to shreds. It’s been true throughout the world. It’s not that the U.S. is trying to increase the use of drugs, it’s just the natural thing to do. If you were in a position where you had to hire thugs and gangsters to kill peasants and break strikes, and you had to do it with untraceable money, what would come to your mind? HIGH TIMES: Where do you stand on drug legalization? NOAM CHOMSKY: Nobody knows what the effect would be. Anyone who tells you they know is just stupid or lying, because nobody knows. These are things that have to be tried, you have to experiment to see what the effects are. Most soft drugs are already legal, mainly alcohol and tobacco. Tobacco is by far the biggest killer among all the psychoactives. Alcohol deaths are a little hard to estimate, because an awful lot of violent deaths are associated with alcohol. Way down below come “hard” drugs, a tiny fraction of the deaths from alcohol or tobacco, maybe ten or twenty thousand deaths per year. The fastest-growing hard drugs are the APS, amphetamine-type substances, produced mostly in the U.S. As far as the rest of the drugs are concerned, marijuana is not known to be very harmful. I mean, it’s generally assumed it’s not good for you, but coffee isn’t good for you, tea isn’t good for you, chocolate cake isn’t good for you either. It would be crazy to criminalize coffee, even though it’s harmful. The United States is one of very few countries where this is considered a moral issue. In most countries you don’t have politicians getting up screaming about how tough they’re going to be on drugs. So the first thing we’ve got to do is move it out of the phase of population control, and into the sphere of social issues. The Rand Corporation estimates that if you compare the effect of criminal programs versus educational programs at reducing drug use, educational programs are way ahead, by about a factor of seven. HIGH TIMES: But alarmist drug-propaganda programs like DARE and the Partnership for a Drug-Free America’s TV ads have been found to increase experimentation among teenagers. NOAM CHOMSKY: The question is, what kind of education are you doing? Educational programs aren’t the only category. Education also has to do with the social circumstances in which drugs are used. The answer to that is not throwing people in jail. The answer is to try and figure what’s going on in their lives, their family; do they need medical care and so on? This very striking decline in substance abuse among educated sectors, as I said, goes across the spectrum - red meat, coffee, tobacco, everything. That’s education. It wasn’t that there was an educational program that said to stop drinking coffee, it’s just that attitudes toward oneself and towards health, how we live and so on, changed among the more educated sectors of the population, and these things went down. And none of it had to do with criminalization. It just had to do with a rise in the culture and educational level, which led to more care for oneself. SOURCE: Excerpted from the April, 1998, issue of High Times Magazine.See More:DrugsHave Your Say: Noam Chomsky on Marijuana Please note, only selected comments will be published. Or discuss this report in our new forums This entry was posted on Monday, June 2nd, 2008 at 3:22 pm and is filed under General, Culture . You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site. |
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