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 | Translate: 翻譯：               Howard Zinn - US ‘in need of rebellion’霍華德zinn -美國在有需要的叛亂' Friday, September 12th, 2008 週五， 2008年9月12日 Al Jazeera 卡塔爾半島電視台 speaks to Howard Zinn, the author, American historian, social critic and activist, about how the Iraq war damaged attitudes towards the US and why the US “empire” is close to collapse. 發言霍華德zinn ，作者，美國歷史學家，評論家和社會活動家，有關如何在伊拉克戰爭破壞的態度，美國，以及為什麼美國的“帝國”是接近崩潰。 Q: Where is the United States heading in terms of world power and influence? 問：在哪裡，是美國在標題中的條款世界的權力和影響力？ HZ: America has been heading - for some time, and is heading right now - toward less and less world power, less and less influence. 赫茲：美國一直標題-一段時間內，是標題的權利，現在-對越來越少的世界強國，越來越少的影響力。 Obviously, since the war in Iraq, the rest of the world has fallen away from the United States, and if American foreign policy continues in the way it has been - that is aggressive and violent and uncaring about the feelings and thoughts of other people - then the influence of the United States is going to decline more and more.顯然，伊拉克戰爭以來，世界其餘地區下降了遠離美國，如果美國外交政策的繼續，在這樣的已-這是侵略性和暴力和漠不關心約的感情和思想的其他人-然後的影響，美國是要下降更多。 This is an empire which is on the one hand the most powerful empire that ever existed; on the other hand an empire that is crumbling - an empire that has no future … because the rest of the world is alienated and simply because this empire is top-heavy with military commitments, with bases around the world, with the exhaustion of its own resources at home.這是一個帝國，這是在一方面最強大的帝國以往任何時候都存在;另一方面帝國是搖搖欲墜-帝國是沒有前途的… …因為世界其餘地區，是疏離，只是因為這是帝國的頂端-沉重的軍事承諾，與基地，在世界各地，用盡自己的資源在家裡。 [This is] leading to more and more discontent and home, so I think the American empire will go the way of other empires and I think it is on its way now. [這是] ，導致越來越多的不滿和主頁，因此，我認為美帝國將去的方式與其他帝國和我覺得這是就其現在的方式。 Q: Is there any hope the US will change its approach to the rest of the world?問：是否有任何希望，美國將改變其做法，向世界其餘地區？ HZ: If there is any hope, the hope lies in the American people. 赫茲：如果有任何希望，希望就在於美國人民。 [It] lies in American people becoming resentful enough and indignant enough over what has happened to their country, over the loss of dignity in the world, over the starving of human resources in the United States, the starving of education and health, the takeover of the political mechanism by corporate power and the result this has on the everyday lives of the American people. [它] ，在於美國人民日益不滿和憤慨，足夠足夠超過發生了什麼事，以自己的國家，超過損失的尊嚴，在世界上，飢餓的人力資源在美國，飢餓的教育和保健，收購的政治機制，由企業的權力和結果，這對日常生活的美國人民。 [There is also] the higher and higher food prices, the more and more insecurity, the sending of the young people to war. [也有]高糧食價格上漲，越來越多的不安全，派遣年輕的人民戰爭。 I think all of this may very well build up into a movement of rebellion.我覺得這一切很可能建立成為一個運動的叛亂。 We have seen movements of rebellion in the past: The labour movement, the civil rights movement, the movement against the war in Vietnam.我們已經看到變動的叛亂，在過去的：勞工運動，民權運動，該運動反對戰爭，在越南。 I think we may well see, if the United States keeps heading in the same direction, a new popular movement.我認為我們很有可能看到，如果美國不斷的標題在同一個方向，一個新的熱門運動。 That is the only hope for the United States.這是唯一的希望為美國。 Q: How did the US get to this point?問：如何做美國得到這一點呢？ HZ: Well, we got to this point because … I suppose the American people have allowed it to get it to this point because there were enough Americans who were satisfied with their lives, just enough. 赫：好的 ，我們到了這一點，是因為… …我猜想，美國人民不允許它獲得它這一點，是因為有足夠的美國人誰感到滿意，他們的生活，剛好夠。 Of course, many Americans were not, that is why half of the population doesn’t vote, they’re alienated.當然，許多美國人都沒有，這就是為什麼一半的人口不投票，他們很疏遠。 But there are just enough Americans who have been satisfied, you might say getting some of the “goodies” of the empire, just some of them, just enough people satisfied to support the system, so we got this way because of the ability of the system to maintain itself by satisfying just enough of the population to keep its legitimacy.但也有剛好夠美國人誰得到滿足，你可以說獲得一些“東東”的帝國，只是他們中的一些，剛好夠人民滿意的支持系統，使我們得到這樣的，因為有能力的系統，以維持本身的滿足剛好夠的人口，以保持其合法性。 And I think that era is coming to an end.我認為這是時代即將結束。 Q: What should the world know about the United States?問：應怎樣世界了解美國嗎？ HZ: What I find many people in the rest of the world don’t know is that there is an opposition in the United States. 赫：什麼，我覺得很多人在世界其餘地區不知道是有一個反對黨在美國。 Very often, people in the rest of the world think that Bush is popular, they think ‘oh, he was elected twice’, they don’t understand the corruption of the American political system which enabled Bush to win twice.很多時候，人在世界其餘認為，布什很受歡迎，他們認為'哦，他被選為兩次' ，他們不明白的腐敗，美國政治制度，使布什贏得兩次。 They don’t understand the basic undemocratic nature of the American political system in which all power is concentrated within two parties which are not very far from one another and people cannot easily tell the difference.他們不明白的基本不民主的性質，美國政治制度在其中的一切權力是集中在兩黨，這是不很遠，從一個又一個人不能輕易告訴差異。 So I think we are in a situation where we are going to need some very fundamental changes in American society if the American people are going to be finally satisfied with the kind of society we have.因此，我認為我們正處在一個情況下，我們需要一些非常根本的變化，美國社會，如果美國人民將會感到滿意，最後什麼樣的社會，我們有。 Q: Do you think the US can recover from its current position?問：你是否認為美國可以收回從目前的立場？ HZ: Well, I am hoping for a recovery process. 赫：好的 ，我希望為經濟復甦進程。 I mean, so far we haven’t seen it.我的意思是，直至目前為止，我們還沒有看到它。 You asked about what the people of the rest of the world don’t know about the United States, and as I said, they don’t know that there is an opposition.你問到什麼人的世界其餘地區不知道美國，正如我剛才所說，他們不知道有一個反對黨。 There always has been an opposition, but the opposition has always been either crushed or quieted, kept in the shadows, marginalised so their voices are not heard.有一直是在野黨，但是在野黨一直不是粉碎或quieted ，被蒙在陰影，邊緣，使他們的聲音沒有聽到。 People in the rest of the world hear the voices of the American leaders.人在世界其餘地區聽到的聲音，美國的領導人。 They do not hear the voices of the people all over this country who do not like the American leaders who want different policies.他們沒有聽到人民的聲音都超過這個國家誰不喜歡美國的領導人誰想要不同的政策。 I think also, people in the rest of the world should know that what they see in Iraq now is really a continuation of a long, long term of American imperial expansion in the world.我認為也，人在世界其餘地區應該知道，他們所看到的在伊拉克的現在，實在是延續一個長期的，長期的美國帝國主義的擴張，在世界上。 I think … a lot of people in the world think that this war in Iraq is an aberration, that before this the United States was a benign power.我覺得…有很多人在世界上認為這是在伊拉克戰爭是一個畸變，在此之前，美國是一個良性的權力。 It has never been a benign power, from the very first, from the American Revolution, from the taking-over of Indian land, from the Mexican war, the Spanish-American war.它從來就不是一個良性的權力，從第一，從美國革命，從以超過印度的土地，從墨西哥戰爭，美西戰爭。 It is embarrassing to say, but we have a long history in this country of violent expansion and I think not only do most people in other countries [not] know this, most Americans don’t know this.這是尷尬的說，但我們有著悠久的歷史，在這個國家的暴力擴張，我認為不僅大多數人在其他國家[不]知道這一點，大多數美國人不知道這一點。 Q: Is there a way for this to improve?問：有沒有辦法做到這一點改善？ HZ: Well you know, whatever hope there is lies in that large number of Americans who are decent, who don’t want to go to war, who don’t want to kill other people. 赫茲：你也知道，無論是有希望在於在這眾多的美國人誰是體面的，誰不想去的戰爭，誰不想要殺害其他人。 It is hard to see that hope because these Americans who feel that way have been shut out of the communications system, so their voices are not heard, they are not seen on the television screen, but they exist.這是不難看出希望，因為這些美國人誰覺得這種方式已經關閉了該通訊系統，使他們的聲音沒有聽到，他們沒有看到在電視屏幕上，但它們存在的話。 I have gone through, in my life, a number of social movements and I have seen how at the very beginning of these social movements or just before these social movements develop, there didn’t seem to be any hope.我已經通過，在我的生活，一些社會運動和我所看到的是如何在開始時，這些社會運動，還是只在這些社會運動的發展，似乎沒有任何希望。 I lived in the [US] south for seven years, in the years of the civil rights movements, and it didn’t seem that there was any hope, but there was hope under the surface.我住在[美國]南為七年，在多年的公民權利運動，它似乎並不認為有任何希望，但有希望下表面。 And when people organised, and when people began to act, when people began to work together, people began to take risks, people began to oppose the establishment, people began to commit civil disobedience.而當人民的舉辦，當人們開始採取行動，當人們開始一起工作，人們開始承擔風險，人們開始以反對成立，人們開始致力於公民抗命。 Well, then that hope became manifest … it actually turned into change.好，那麼這個希望成為體現… …它實際上變成了改變。 Q: Do you think there is a way out of this and for the future influence of the US on the world to be a positive one?問：你覺得是有出路，這為未來的影響，美國對世界是一個積極的一？ HZ: Well, you know for the United States to begin to be a positive influence in the world we are going to have to have a new political leadership that is sensitive to the needs of the American people, and those needs do not include war and aggression. 赫：好的 ，你知道對於美國來說，開始是一個積極的影響，在世界上我們要必須有一個新的政治領導，這是敏感的需要，美國人民，這些需要不包括戰爭和侵略。 [It must also be] sensitive to the needs of people in other parts of the world, sensitive enough to know that American resources, instead of being devoted to war, should be devoted to helping people who are suffering. [還必須]敏感地認識到人民的需要在世界其他地方，敏感的，足以知道，美國的資源，而不是被用於戰爭，應該致力於幫助人們誰是痛苦。 You’ve got earthquakes and natural disasters all over the world, but the people in the United States have been in the same position as people in other countries.您有地震和自然災害遍布世界各地，但人在美國，已經在同樣的立場，作為其他國家的人民。 The natural disasters here [also] brought little positive reaction - look at [Hurricane] Katrina.自然災害在這裡[也]帶來一點積極的反應-看看[颶風]颶風。 The people in this country, the poor people especially and the people of colour especially, have been as much victims of American power as people in other countries.人民群眾在這個國家，窮人的人，特別是和人民的膚色，尤其是已多的受害者，美國的力量，作為其他國家的人民。 Q: Can you give us an overall scope of everything we talked about – the power and influence of the United States?問：你能否給我們一個整體的範圍，一切我們談到-權力和影響力的美國呢？ HZ: The power and influence of the United States has declined rapidly since the war in Iraq because American power, as it has been exercised in the world historically, has been exposed more to the rest of the world in this situation and in other situations. 赫茲：權力和影響力的美國已急劇下降以來，在伊拉克戰爭，因為美國的權力，因為它已被行使，在世界歷史上，已經暴露更多的世界其餘地區在這種情況下和在其他情況下。 So the US influence is declining, its power is declining.因此，美國的影響力正在下降，其權力正在下降。 However strong a military machine it is, power does not ultimately depend on a military machine.但強烈的軍事機器，它是權力並不最終取決於一的軍事機器。 So power is declining.因此，權力正在下降。 Ultimately power rests on the moral legitimacy of a system and the United States has been losing moral legitimacy.最終的權力在於對道德合法性的制度和美國已失去道德的合法性。 My hope is that the American people will rouse themselves and change this situation, for the benefit of themselves and for the benefit of the rest of the world.我希望的是，美國人民將振奮自己，改變這一狀況，為造福自己和造福世界其餘地區。 Have Your Say: Howard Zinn - US ‘in need of rebellion’ 你說：霍華德zinn -美國在有需要的叛亂' Please read our請閱讀我們的 posting guidelines before posting發布指引，然後再發布 . 。 Alternatively或者 you can discuss this report here您可以討論此報告在這裡 . 。 Related News 相關新聞
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